To think we are in a relationship?

[Beingabout]

We are in our late 30s. We’ve been friends since we were teenagers. We had several casual flings with each other throughout our 20s. About six years ago we started seeing each other more often, but he didn’t want a relationship.

Five years ago I met someone else, and given the stance of not wanting a relationship, I went out with him and ended up in a relationship with him. I gave the first man every opportunity to stop it but he didn’t. Anyway, we broke up after a few months and the first man and I ended up back in touch. I made it clear at this point that I was only interested in being back in touch if we weren’t going to be seeing anyone else, which he agreed to.

Since then we’ve become closer and closer. I trust that he’s not, and is not interested in, seeing anyone else. He's supportive and caring (which it’s fair to say he wasn’t in our 20s). He’s thoughtful and kind. We go on holiday together and exchange Christmas and birthday presents. I have started to refer to him as my boyfriend, which he knows about and doesn’t seem bothered about.

He woukd still say we’re not in a relationship. I can’t see how this isn’t a relationship?

Apologies if this has already been asked but if someone asks what’s your status does he call you his girlfriend or say he’s in a relationship with you?

This is exactly the same as if I was married and it ends though. It is always possible that a relationship will end and that time has been ‘wasted’. Anyone can be left suddenly. You see it all of the time on here, frequently when the woman is dependent upon a man’s house and wage because she has had children and given up work/reduced her hours, and not married and so has no claim on the house.

If mine decides he wants to finish things with me, I’d be absolutely gutted, of course, but anyone can leave anyone, and it wouldn’t be leaving me with children or ruined finances and nowhere to live. If he wants to leave and take up with another woman, I dare say that would happen regardless of whether he is referring to a relationship, as we see men do often whilst married and in a relationship, but I am as confident as I can be that he won’t.

I would not be remaining friends with him.

At this point (and I’ve read the whole thread) I’m beginning to think this is a wind up.

If you have to ask, then he’s not your boyfriend/partner/insert “label”…especially after so much time. If you’re both happy with the arrangement, none of that matters anyway. But if he won’t give a straight answer to a straight question, then I’d consider that confirmation of my original statement.

Of course. I’ve been hearing these comments since I was a teenager. There are always people adamant that I might change my mind. I doubt he gets the same scepticism when he says he doesn’t want them.

I suppose because other than this oddity, everything else about him is great.

I have said that I think the attachment issues are spot on and I’ve said several times that I think it stems from his childhood. I’m at work today so haven’t been able to research it more than a cursory glance which rings true.

I don’t think I’ve got any attachment issues but I’ve never really thought about it.

Well if he changes his mind he’d have to find a woman down the pub because he’ll not be having kids with me.

I honestly don’t know. Obviously his friends and family know about me. I’m not sure what he’d say to a stranger or whether any have ever asked him.

Fair enough, you’re absolutely right. As you say this is a discussion, I’m going to reaffirm my belief that it’s psychological on his part and the label scares him. If you managed to convince him to refer to each other as bf/gf etc you may well find he does a runner shortly after due to the invisible pressure. Many ppl (men) have been known to scarper as soon as they’re married after decades of being with that person as the loss of ‘freedom’ terrifies them so you may have made the right choice. It’s interesting he can’t define how he is different to a bf and the relationship isn’t an official one despite beings one in pretty much everything but name. Good luck

He has a lot longer to decide is the only difference

So why post on the internet asking people to support your view that you’re in a relationship even though your guy friend doesn’t think so, if the distinction is so unimportant?

I have to say that what strikes me in your OP is that the account of the casual flings in your twenties and you starting a relationship with someone else five years ago because this guy didn’t want a relationship, and this guy being ok with that, and then that ending and you telling this guy you’d only see him if he wasn’t also seeing someone else, makes it sound like you’ve always been far more into him, as he had the option of stepping up if he’d been bothered about you starting the other relationship, but that you’re a kind of handy boomerang/default for him.

Because you’ve shown him repeatedly that you’re prepared to overlook your own desire for a relationship to be with him on the terms he prefers. He doesn’t need to worry about what you call it because he’s made his own position, that he’s not in a relationship with you, perfectly clear over the years.

Whether that’s acceptable to you is obviously up to you. I suspect it isn’t entirely, hence the post. But is it really a position you want to be in, in your sixties, say, in what you believe is a relationship with a man who is inwardly congratulating himself on a daily basis on having got through life without a relationship?

I have a male friend who sounds very much like your partner. Has had several long term relationships which he describes as ‘serial monogamy’ but has no intention at all of showing any outside commitment to his girlfriends in the form of sharing a house, engagement or marriage. That has been fine (to a certain extent) where the girlfriend has their own career, money and housing and doesn’t want children. But when one girlfriend, who he had been dating for 10 years, suddenly lost her income and needed somewhere to live, he basically told her that he didn’t want her to come and live with him, even temporarily. At a really difficult time he simply wasn’t there for her. So, everything is fine when life is going smoothly but what happens in the event of shit hitting the fan? The relationship ended soon after and he moved on to a similar relationship with someone else.

You are right in that this could happen to anyone, married or not, but the feeling that he really wasn’t there in the difficult times made the girlfriend feel she had been nothing more than a FWB.

Sorry have you asked him directly what the difference is between what you two are doing and a relationship, in his mind?

Nobody is going to be able to give you a better answer about his stance on this than him!

If you haven’t asked him is it because you’re a bit nervous the answer would be hurtful?

I just can’t imagine not having the conversation, and getting a clear answer, after being together for years and him apparently being loving and kind?

@Beingabout I have read most of the thread but not all so if I have missed anything then I apologise.

Truth is, you are in a relationship of sorts, and as much as you do a lot of the things you would do in the type of relationship you want with this person, you don't have the relationship you want with this person for one simple reason - acknowledgement.

You have said in some of your posts 'it would make you feel better' - that's the security of knowing that he is on exactly the same page as you. The acknowledgement that you're in this together. This is what you don't have.

I'm not disputing that he has affection for you, possibly even love, you enjoy each other's company, events, outings etc but without the acknowledgement from both sides, this isn't the relationship that you're indicating you want.

You need to ask yourself the question if you're happy with this situation for the rest of your life. I agree that anyone can walk away from a relationship at any point. The difference here is he can do it with a clear conscience, no recriminations, no drawn out dramatic goodbye's. He's made his position clear, the fact that you have chosen to ignore that is on you.

Honestly op I wouldn't sweat it. If he's happy and you're happy then the labels don't matter.

Do you want more? Do you want to live together, go to family functions and be part of his family? Do you want his claim of ownership on you? Do you want to see more of him? Is there anything missing?

If you're genuinely happy with the way things are, I'd just accept for him they a relationship means something he can't commit to but he's here now. I just would ensure you're financially seecure and emotionally have resources other than him. Because he isn't promising to be there foreve

As do all men compared to women.

I’ve asked him quite a few times. He doesn’t really answer.

I can’t imagine a happy, healthy relationship where you directly ask someone a question that’s important to you, they ‘don’t really answer’ and you just shrug your shoulders and accept it. Surely you say well can you elaborate? He must have an opinion if he feels so strongly about not calling a long term arrangement a ‘relationship’.

My partner loves and cares for me so if I ask him something that’s important to me, he’d be respectful enough to answer. I’d do the same for him.

I don’t think it’s very nice or decent of your partner to not engage with the conversation when he knows that his stance is very unusual.

Sounds like you’re old friends with benefits.
end of story.
is that’s what you want then great. I think it is what he wants.
if you yearn for more, for a boyfriend/partner/husband- then you’re wasting your time here.

I quite like the idea of living together sometimes, but then I also value having my own home where there are no domestic arguments or issues if I want to have friends back for drinks at short notice etc. I suppose I like not having to consider anyone else when it comes to my home. Positives and negatives.

I would love to see more of him but I don’t have time to. I couldn’t care less about his family functions - I’m happy to not be obliged there.

I don’t think he would have any claim of ownership over me regardless of relationship status.

Again, friends with benefits are friends who usually are not faithful to each other, and see each other to have sex, with it clear that there is no obligation not to go on dates, flirt etc. Not to communicate with each other several times a day about daily life, support each other when upset, holiday together etc.

For me, commitment is a choice and doesn't need any labels. Labels come with expectations and norms which not everyone fit into. Except of OP noone here knows this guy and almost everyone jumps to the conclusion that he is not fully into her, using, her, wants to keep his options open just because he doesn't like labels.... you can be as caring and loving and committed in just being yourself - without an extra title of boyfriend or girlfriend or husband/wife...
There is no guarantee for a secure future in anything.
We should be able to voice when life has changed and we want to move on in a relationship or in a situationship or marriage or work relation the same way. A label doesn't define whether this guy will be on OPs side through good and bad... Commitment is a personality thing and not a label I say.
I avoid labeling, the man in my life introducese me by my name and the other way round. That we are committed to each other and our values is not a question for him nor for me because it shows itself through our actions...

It sounds a bit like place marking. A couple of my friends do all this but sex, companionship wise. Now she’s got a bf and he sees her far less and she does all the things they used to do together socially with him. It’s obvious he feels a bit disappointed, but they were never ‘official’

Go and do some reading on attachment styles. He sounds like he's very much the avoidant type. He's happy to go along with it, but in his mind he's not committing to anything with you. So he'll feel as if he can end the 'relationship' for any reason (or no reason at all) without feeling any guilt about it. He'll stick with you while it's convenient, but he's given no indication that he won't just walk away whenever he feels like it. His previous words and actions have made that very clear, he's not tried to disguise it or mislead you. You're a convenience to him rather than a passion.