To think we are in a relationship?

[Beingabout]

We are in our late 30s. We’ve been friends since we were teenagers. We had several casual flings with each other throughout our 20s. About six years ago we started seeing each other more often, but he didn’t want a relationship.

Five years ago I met someone else, and given the stance of not wanting a relationship, I went out with him and ended up in a relationship with him. I gave the first man every opportunity to stop it but he didn’t. Anyway, we broke up after a few months and the first man and I ended up back in touch. I made it clear at this point that I was only interested in being back in touch if we weren’t going to be seeing anyone else, which he agreed to.

Since then we’ve become closer and closer. I trust that he’s not, and is not interested in, seeing anyone else. He's supportive and caring (which it’s fair to say he wasn’t in our 20s). He’s thoughtful and kind. We go on holiday together and exchange Christmas and birthday presents. I have started to refer to him as my boyfriend, which he knows about and doesn’t seem bothered about.

He woukd still say we’re not in a relationship. I can’t see how this isn’t a relationship?

You are desperate for him to be something he's not.

Instead of asking us to define why it isn't a relationship, why don't you ask yourself the definition of a best friend..with benefits, because that's what he is.
All care, no reponsibility. No commitment.

It's the commitment that defines relationships.
Otherwise it's all superficial.

If it is commitment that defines a relationship then what defines commitment?

They go on holiday and to all intents and purposes are in a relationship it is clearly not just sex and a confidante.

I haven’t read the whole thread, just OP’s posts.

IMO the difference is the amount of effort you’d go to save the “connection” through troubles. If another person coming along is enough to end the connection, then it could be a seeing-each-other, early relationship sort of thing. If you fight through all ups and downs to stay together, that would make it more serious.

They are if they agree to be .

Have you met his family or friends ? Do you go on date night and out in public ?
Have you any future plans , holidays talk about the future . What he wants what you want ?

You say you’re happy, you are on MN as something must be niggling you . ?

Why cant you talk to him about these things ?
Of course you want to trust and believe in him . However some men are known for future faking . Only you can know the real answers . Or ask him.

Have you met them since you two got into a “relationship “ ?
Has he introduced you as his g.f partner?

That’s totally dis respectful and show you what he thinks of you op.

I was genuinely asking question to help you work it out .
I know the comments may seem harsh , posters just see what you can’t .

Is he autistic?

Are you ND as well?

Maybe you should ask your self what the difference between your situation. Then a couple just seeing each other .
your lives are in know way intertwined you live completely separate life’s .and go on dates and holiday together every now and again .

I think some of the comments are harsh and I do wish people would at least read the ops posts as they are coming on and asking her questions she’s already answered.

my concern is does the op want a life time of this, always living alone, no kids, no marriage, just what she has now, forever more. Just dating.

if she’s good with it, then it’s fine, but if she ultimately wants more then she shouldn’t settle and she needs to end it and find someone who wants the same as her,

I don’t see what him liking kids has to do with me not wanting them.

It is slightly irritating to have to continuously repeat that I don’t want children.

I think people are just trying to say that there is a possibility, however slight, that you may change your mind (not that you should, must or anything like that) and your options on this will become more limited much before his. It’s up to you what you do of course and these are just things to consider. I’ve certainly known people who’ve said they definitely didnt want children and changed their mind and vice versa. I wish you all the best and just urge caution to protect you not irritate you.

If he likes kids - and presumably you do if you both choose to spend Xmas with your families because you have young nieces, among other reasons I’m sure, he obviously doesn’t find the concept of kids gross/ annoying/ horrifying etc. If he loves spending time with his niece he may decide one day that he’d like to have a child of his own before it’s too late. It would seem far less likely if he avoided his family gatherings bc there would be a young child there (some ppl are like this) and it would indicate that he would never contemplate having kids of his own.

Ppl can and do change their minds regardless. I was just emphasising that just bc you’re on the same page now regarding this issue you may not be. You may discover you’d suddenly love to have kids yourself but stay with him bc you love him, only to resent him in the future, or worse still watch as he has a family with somebody else.

I think this is a huge stretch. I love spending time with my nieces. I adore them and take them out at any opportunity I get, and would walk over hot coals to see their little faces on Christmas morning. It doesn’t mean I want kids.

And if he did do a very strange 180 and decide that after 20 years of being adamant that he doesn’t want children that suddenly he did, then he’d absolutely be best off leaving me and finding another woman, because I do not want them.

There is no chance I am changing my mind. I am nearly 40. If I wanted kids I could have had them.

I had hoped by this age the ‘you’ll change your mind’ comments would have ended.

I think he doesn’t want to label it to keep his options open. This may be in terms of a better prospect coming along, or if he decides to stop seeing OP altogether, or up sticks and move somewhere for a fresh start that doesn’t include her.

If they aren’t in a ‘relationship’ he’s not a bad person if he ends it. Whatever it is. He can end it whenever he wants without the emotional blowback of what he presumes would head his way if it was a formally recognised thing. OP will be being unreasonable if she’s upset or takes it out on him - he never promised her anything, it’s not his fault she got overly invested.

I’d have more respect for his position if he expressed discomfort at being described as her bf. He clearly wants all the benefits of a relationship without any of the heavy stuff and to be able to walk away whenever he wants with zero repercussions. Maybe he intends to stay with her for life and the anxiety around the label is merely psychological. Not very settling if you’re the other person tho, particularly regarding the future.

My point was, how would you feel if he did, and you’d wasted all the time between when you could have built something more meaningful with someone else? If you’re happy with the situation, with no plans for the future and the prospect of him leaving you suddenly with no accountability and wanting to remain friends (but without benefits) appeals to you, that’s obviously great. No one can predict the future, but he sounds a commitment phobe and if he’s not reliable on this front, what else will he flake out of bc it makes him uncomfortable?

I have three friends who did exactly this at 39, 40 and 41 so it does happen

Ok, I hadn’t picked up on your age, apologies. You seem very clear in your mind. You may not realise but your replies sound like you are shouting back at people. I only offered some thoughts to consider that I hoped might be helpful. Clearly they are not but they were offered in good spirit.

So happy that you aren’t in a relationship but posting to asking people to tell you that you are? That sounds very happy to me.

If you feel you live as if in a relationship, but know that he would definitely say you aren’t in one, why not just ask him ‘what’s the difference between our situation and a relationship in your mind?’

I don’t understand why you’re sharing your life with someone who you can’t ask that to and / or won’t give you an answer? It’s a fair question and he know that his stance on relationships is unusual as he has family and friends he will have seen taking a more traditional approach.

You're ok to respond on the points about children OP, which is absolutely fair.

I would gently point out though that you're responding to that, (which is a load of people who can't see beyond marriage-kids life) but less drawn to respond on the attachment styles issue and what it might say about your own attachment style.

For the record, there is obviously absolutely nothing wrong with not wanting kids, I just hate the idea of men having their cake and eating it. Not fancying it in their 20s, 30, into their 40s and the women who love them put aside what they want, or feel they are on the same page as them, then suddenly get the rug pulled when they bloke decided he actually wants them after all, or his head is turned by someone 10/20 years younger at work or down the pub, who really wants them, and goes along with this as it’s a deal breaker. Men who have avoided kids have been known to change their minds for all kinds of reasons and can end up living with women who have kids of their own bc they want to shag these women and get a roof over their head.