To think this is beyond grim?

[stunnedbythis]

I was talking to my mum this afternoon, she mentioned that one of her friends is celebrating thirty years living with his boyfriend. It suddenly occurred to me to ask how old they were when they met because her friend doesn't look old enough, and she said he was 18 and his boyfriend was about 32. I knew there was an age gap, but I can't help but think this is really, really grim.

My mum go really defensive about this as she's very close to her friend and to some extent his boyfriend too, but she said things were very different 30 years ago and that it was her friend who did all the chasing (she's know this friend since he was about 16/17 as they worked in the same shop for a while). She said he met this man in a pub and they just hit it off.

My mum is in her 60s now and has a very different outlook, I asked her how she'd feel if one of my children turned 18 and started dating someone in their thirties, but all she could say is "its different now". How is it different?? What am I missing?

When I was 18 I dated a guy this age for a year, it really wasn’t seem as the same back then, your mum is right.

and maintaining a 30 year relationship is not grim. On this you don’t get to judge op.

I don’t think they were publicly out in Four Weddings and A Funeral… (I understand that’s not the point of this thread) John Hannah was referred to as his “friend” at the funeral and I’m pretty sure the character Hugo makes reference to not realising they were a couple. I thought that was what made the funeral scenes even sadder! Even in the 90s there was still a lot of stigma and fear around homosexuality following the 80s HIV boom, which I think a lot of people forget was horrific! The TV adverts, the demonising of gay men etc.

It isn't grim. The older man obviously wasn't looking for a teenager in particular , it was chance , or he wouldn't still be with them 30 years later . Lighten up .

I know a couple with a similar age gap, they married against her parents wishes, and 40+ years later are still together.
back then it was not unusual to leave school at 16, have a full time job and be financially contributing to your family, all adult responsibilities.
This couple clearly recognised they were made for other and probably thought why wait? They respected each other to make their love a legal commitment before their families and God and went on to live a life in which, together, they served others.
FWIW they were from similar social and economic backgrounds so not a case of an older partner using their position to obtain what would otherwise be impossible for them to have.
i can see why the age gap causes queasiness but these were two consenting, non coerced adults whose love has stood the test of time and public scrutiny. How many couples with a socially acceptable age gap can say the same?

I don't see the issue. Yes there's potentially a power imbalance when there's a teenager involved. Yes it'd be concerning if the older partner was a serial 'offender', repeatedly taking up with younger people that they're potentially grooming. But this situation is about an enduring relationship that's presumably based on love.
If they're still together after 30 years and both happy, well done them. How wonderful that they chose well and have made a success of things.

I was in my 30's in the 1990s, and a large age gap was not considered normal back then at all! In fact, since I have been aware of what large age gaps, or being homosexual, etc, actually means - from the 1970s upwards - there has been a much greater acceptance of homosexuality, but no noticeable difference in how well large age gaps between couples, have been tolerated.

Homosexualality is, and probably always has been, a natural part of nature. I say "natural" because there have been many occasions when animals other than humans - have been both observed, and recorded, behaving in a sexual way with other animals of the same sex and genus.

Although on the face of it, sex between two animals of the same gender does seem unnatural, because reproduction of a species cannot happen in most animals if they are both male or both female, I don't believe it would happen at all if there was not a good biological reason for it. Perhaps we humans might just not be knowledgeable enough yet to understand what the benefits are, and unfortunately, this is not the right place to start pondering about that!

Large age gaps between human couples are probably still frowned upon for the same reasons that homosexuality was for such a long time during our history. That being again, because of the dangers of the female of the species not being able to conceive at all, or to conceive a healthy, viable, baby, outside of some quite limiting parameters. Although adult men seem to have a longer period of time in which they are fertile, there are many ways that the quality of their spermatozoa can be adversely affected, and reaching an older age can certainly be one of them.

So, HowBizxarre, where you were brought up, 31 odd years ago, may have been more open to what people of my age, and my parents age, would have often considered inappropriate age gaps, and would have therefore batted a lot of eyelids, we are now, hopefully, more practiced/educated in the rights of consenting adults, who harm no-one else. Where we once might have sadly looked down on such couples we now thankfully know to mind our own businesses 🙈

The gay community campaigned long and hard for the same rights as everyone else.
So lets not vilify their choice of consensual relationships, shall we?

This ⬆️. It was a long and painful battle.

OP seems to be stunned that people more than a few months apart in age might ever even want to talk to each other. I wonder how this plays out when she first meets someone who seems interesting - does she have to check their date of birth before proceeding further? 'Oh sorry, I thought you were the same age as me, which is 32, but you're actually 33, so we can't socialise because we won't have anything in common.'

I’m not sure why everyone is seeing this situation as being linked to the couple being gay. Until very recent times and I am sure it still goes on power imbalances were romanticised. The rich older man was the white knight hero in both good and bad fiction. That’s why people seen Charles and Diana as a fairytale.

It is the basic trope of trashy romantic fiction and quite a lot of the creative fiction some of the trolls post on here. It’s only in recent years that the narrative has flipped to victim and villain tropes. There is a truth in these tropes that is complex. People experience life differently and not all behaviours are extreme or traumatic.

Worth considering that one on MN ever advises a woman to get married for equality. They advise them to get married for protection. The White Knight syndrome is alive and well in our culture.

I know several friends whose parents have a 10+ yr age gap and met when they were very young. Most of them had their children much younger than we do now too.

Things were different.

I would be absolutely horrified if my DDs got together with a 30 yr old in their teens but it really can't have been the same then as it is not unusual at all

When I was growing up, most people left school at 16. At age 18 you were most definitely an adult and not referred to as a "teenager". I think there's a lot of infantilising goes on nowadays.

We all have different experiences of life. I was a young adult in the 90’s and got asked out by older men all the time. It wasn’t my thing so I just said no thanks and it was accepted. One of my friends married someone she met at 19, he was 34, still married.
Had gay friends with small age gaps and large age gaps.
If you really want to feel offended I was a teenager in the 1980’s and it was really common for girls of 13/14 to have boyfriends of 20/21/22 who would pick them up in their cars. Nobody raised an eyelid not even the nuns who taught us - I kid you not.
The first lad who asked me out was 20, I was actually 12, but he thought I was more grown up, at least 13/14. I said no, he was fine about it but I still get stuck about it now. (He asked me out at a street party for Charles & Diana’s Royal Wedding!)
I was in a really strict house but before mobiles we found all sorts of ways to get around rules and curfews. I can remember being in a nightclub at 13 with my friend, her sister of 23 took us. We actually climbed down a fire escape at the back of her house to get in the car.
We were really lucky that no harm ever came to us. I can remember being at gigs at 13/14 and it would be full of older boys/men.
I am not saying there were no problems/issues, but the 80’s and 90’s were decades I really, really enjoyed.

Interesting point, but I think it oversimplifies matters. When a woman in her fertile years is in a relationship with a man, unless she knows she's infertile or has taken steps to make sure she will never be pregnant, there's always a chance she will end up having a child, and in the vast majority of cases that's going to affect her career, her earnings, pension provision and also increase the chance of the relationship breaking down, unfortunately. If the man walks away and they are not married she may end up in a very bad position financially because statistically he's likely to be the higher earner.

MN has a disproportionate number of women who have very good careers and don't depend financially on their male partners, but even they could find themselves in difficulties if their careers were derailed by an illness or disability within the family and they end up as main carer, as so many women do. That's why many of us say marriage is an important protection because it gives both parties defined legal rights and responsibilities. Without that everything depends on the parties being decent people. Unfortunately many aren't.

I don't think it's ideal but 18 is not a child. Some people are much more mature and some people are the opposite. I've got a friend who had a similar age scenario. 25 years on they are still together. I know lots of people with big age gaps and for them it works. I think a lot of your judgement comes this lack of understanding of mixed age friendships. I do have friends who are a good bit older than me and younger. They bring different insights. My own sibling is 8 years younger than me. My life would be so much more the poorer without the variety of people in it.

I don't think 18 was considered "young" back then in the same way as it is now. In my experience (18 in 1988) at 18 you were considered an adult. The "key of the door" birthday gifts/cards etc was always much less significant, ie, turning 18 was a big thing, you were officially an Adult. Many of us had grown up with more responsibility for ourselves (and others) than most kids today, and at 18 we weren't seen as "teenagers" really, and were more self-sufficient, and certainly not "children". I'm just speaking from my own experience.

There are plenty of woman who deliberately look for older men. Specifically those who have money.
Let's not pretend they are all delicate naive exploited little flowers.
Ive met a few women like this over the years and trust me they can be ruthless

I agree with more teens going to university (which delays final adulthood and independence) it means most people are really now considered dependant children until 21. As a result people see 18 year olds as children still in a way they didn’t when they were working and often were leaving home at that age.

I think it's grim. I have an 18 year old and the thought of her being with a 30 odd year old, it would just be wrong. She's barely out of childhood, has basically no life experience. I'd be so worried for her.

Oh and my 18 year old is not at uni, she's working. I still feel the same about it.

None of your beeswax. The relationship has lasted 30 years so presumably they're happy. Keep your concern for your own private life, not others'.

Barely out of childhood? Is she at uni? Learning to drive? Working? Voting?
She's an adult.

You would get exactly the same response from me.

My friend who was in her 30s was asked out by a 19 year old. She said 'no' and he persisted. They've been together for 40 years now. Nobody's business but theirs.

I don’t see how them being gay changes anything. We often look back at heterosexual age gap relationships from the past and acknowledge it was inappropriate whilst recognising it was a different time.