DD’s birthday was an utter disaster

[bendmeoverbackwards]

It’s DD’s 19th birthday today. She’s ASD and has been out of education for a few years.

Last couple of birthdays have been disappointing to her and I know this one brought up a lot of emotion not just about birthdays but also her situation in general.

I asked her a few weeks ago if she wanted to see a particular show and a meal at a steak place. She just said no but gave no other suggestions. I then asked last week of she wanted just a meal out and where - no response. So I decided to book a local restaurant just in case as Saturday nights get busy, with the option of cancelling if she didn’t want to.

When I told her, she wasn’t happy and said she couldn’t do it now because I’d chosen it (autistic brain). I asked where else she’d like to go but didn’t get a reply. I suggested a takeaway, took hours of questions about this, she didn’t see a takeaway as a birthday celebration. She eventually decided on pizza.

I also got her a beautiful personalised cake. Last year for her 18th, I got her a nice chocolate cake with her name on but it didn’t have the same personalisation as her older sister’s 18th birthday cake (which was celebrated in lockdown so I pushed the boat out a bit). Also the board base was accidentally thrown out when there was a tiny bit of chocolate left on it. She complained about this for months. I said I would buy her an extra cake (cheapy supermarket cake) but I forgot.

Now she says she can’t have this year’s cake because of the lack of the other one and it would be in the wrong order (autistic brain again).

Choosing presents is also difficult for her so I chose a few small gifts and paid in £50 birthday money into her account. She didn’t like this either, she wanted to choose her own presents (but from past experience she takes ages to choose, months and months, so I thought I’d make it easier by giving her money).

Written down, I realise she sounds like a spoilt brat. But I didn’t do some things that I said I would eg buy her an additional cake and take her for a belated birthday meal (from last year).

The evening ended with her sobbing in the kitchen and me losing my temper 😢

No one is suggesting Op shouts at her dd but you don’t have to put up with being sworn at or listen to long moans from her dd about her perceived cake failings from 12 months before. Op is quite with her rights to say don’t you speak to me like that or walk away.
The pandering isn’t working for the dd or Op.
She’d asked DD what she would like. Got zero suggestions. Booked a restaurant. Adult dd didn’t fancy it. That is end of it. No need to suggest takeaways etc. If dd does nothing for her birthday that’s fine some people prefer not to do anything or have any fuss.

It sounds like all OP does is try to understand her daughter, who calls all the shots.

The daughter now needs to show some understanding and respect toward her mum.

@katepilar there are a number of excellent behaviour analysts/therapists in the UK, but one might have to travel, or get them to travel to you to get the right one I lived in London when my DS was on his behavioural programme and the analyst came from Bristol once a month to work with us.

Whilst I agree that autism can lead to vile behaviours, I disagree autistic men are necessarily abusive people. It’s perhaps a semantic difference as the effect on the ‘victim’ is the same, but I think it’s important. Men who are abusive can be acting in the same way as non-abusive men. The thing that makes the behaviour and them abusive is the intention to control. My H does not have that. In fact he feels very out of control. He cannot understand why he does not have the relationships he wants and he can’t connect the lack of this to his own behaviour. And that cognitive lack is due to his autism. It did not help me when other people described him as abusive as this didn’t reflect
my experience and I could see his confusion in interactions.

I understand you were specifically talking about attempts to control, so yes, I guess that would fit. But I also want to make the point that autistic men can behave dreadfully but without the intention to control or cause harm. It comes from extreme egotism, lack of theory of mind and emotionally disregulation. No one should have to tolerate this behaviour, and I would not advise anyone to form a relationship with an autistic man, if I am honest. My own experience has been too awful. But to describe my H as abusive just doesn’t fit my experience, and in his own wholly inadequate and misjudged way, he does try.

You are enabling her disgraceful behaviour, OP! I know it’s hard but you need to back right off. Behave in a normal way with her, making reasonable adjustments for her autism, but stop indulging her - because you’re reinforcing her behaviour and seriously disadvantaging her ability to cope in the outside world.

By ‘reasonable adjustments’ above, I mean things like giving her a bit more time to choose presents, etc. I also find it helpful to put things in a text or email so that my DC can look back at that written in black and white. It also stops any accusations of ‘you didn’t tell me that!’

With regard to the cake board with the little piece of chocolate on, admit you did it, apologise but then tell her she needs to move on. If she raises it again, tell her ‘we’ve moved on from that’ and don’t talk about it any more. Walk away if necessary. Same with the birthday money. If she keeps moaning about it, calmly explain why you did it, and don’t let yourself be drawn into further discussions. Some people with ASD feed off prolonged discussions and agonising, not necessarily on purpose, but it becomes a habit, a scab they have to scratch. You can help your DD by not getting involved in this. Again, walk away if necessary after you’ve made your calm statement.

Trying to ‘understand’, trying to pacify, trying to listen to every single word they say over and over doesn’t help. It’s a pattern of behaviour that they need help breaking (or reducing, at least). Remember, you’re setting guide ropes for her to negotiate the real world. Take a big step back and do this calmly and consistently.

Exactly this. You should have put your foot down about ‘having’ to buy another cake because the cake board wasn’t completely clean when it was thrown away. That’s ridiculous and I can’t believe you said to an 18-year-old that you would do that. OCD/PDA/autism - none of these things mean that you deserve to never suffer any disappointment or have to learn to cope in an imperfect world because, as you have now seen, it is not the route to peace, harmony and contentment, it’s the opposite. She needs to learn some strategies that allow her to take control of her life, rather than expecting others (you) to tie themselves in knots to serve her needs at the expense of your own. When the cake board was thrown away she found that distressing. Fine - she experiences life differently and she can have whatever feelings she likes about that, with no judgement. Then she needs to remember (or be helped to remember) that those feelings are not productive or helpful and that there is no actual danger to her in this situation. As they used to explain it at my kids’ primary school, her ‘reptile brain’ (I.e. the primitive part, from our earliest evolution) is telling her that there’s an emergency but she needs to engage her ‘owl brain’ that’s a bit wiser and more considered to take back control! Did you discuss why it doesn’t matter that the cake board was thrown away and give her a chance to process those feelings, or did you just try to smooth the upset and offer to buy another one? If she really, really ‘needed’ another cake (she didn’t, but let’s say that wasn’t something that she really couldn’t cope with at the time) then you should have told her that she could buy another cake - give her the control and responsibility and start extricating yourself from having to always solve her problems for her.

Her way of ‘doing life’ isn’t going to be the same as others, and that’s perfectly fine, but she has to coexist in this world just like everyone else. There is no easy way to raise a ND child and you have my full sympathy and respect - I think that very well-meaning people have led to a pendulum swing away from the old expectations that ND people should be made to conform (wrong and doesn’t work) to the new expectations that they should be supported and catered to with infinite patience and no expectations of reciprocity (also wrong and doesn’t work). This is somewhat a feature of modern parenting in general, and it isn’t raising happy young adults in general!

She is 19 but probably emotionally/developmemtally 16 - she’s having her difficult, stroppy, teenage years but with the added challenges she faces, which are incredibly tough. You still need to tell her to wise up occasionally and be a bit more considerate and a lot more appreciative of everything you clearly do for her.

And one more thought - try not to fuss her to make decisions. You could try telling her ahead of time that if she doesn't choose a present by, I dunno, a week before, then she will get money and that is fine. She may also need to hear that it's fine not to get the same as her sister because they are different people. She may need these ideas repeated now and again, social-story style, even if she doesn't accept them at the time.

Stick to your guns and repeat your point a couple of times and then stop arguing even if she has a tantrum. That may be more helpful than changing your mind in an effort to please her or you trying to come up with different arguments to convince her. Birthdays and Christmas don't happen very often so it may take a few of them before it sinks in.

I completely agree with this.

I’ve a Dialectical behavioural therapy book, which I have yet to read. Is this the same thing?

This is a perfect encapsulation of so so much of the parenting talked about here.
well done on the self reflection and correction.

I honestly think so many people are trying to give this advice in less constructive ways but the constant aim to avoid meltdowns or push’s backs is not helping in the long term.

In the context of a conversation about pain in the arse autistic people. It really wasn’t necessary to put NAAPLT in front of the word autistic every time it was used. . I did assume everyone reading the post would have this basic level of reading comprehension skills.

Well some of this may be down to autism, but most of it sounds like fairly classic selfish, spoilt teenage behaviour to me. I often think that my friends on the spectrum are sometimes more considerate than my other friends, not less. Being an autistic adult doesn’t have to mean being really unkind to your Mum who is doing her best, or being a total tyrant. I’m sure I was also sometimes selfish and inconsiderate to my Mum at 19, but it’s important, whatever challenges your child has, to not accept this kind of behaviour and to explain why it’s not on, and put rules in place. Autistic or not, we all have to live in the world and try to form good relationships.

She needs boundaries. Choose something or there won't be anything. I have a son with ASD and he isn't like this at all. Stop treading on eggshells, she gets one chance to say what she wants or gets nothing. She will learn from this although it will be difficult at first. I'm usually the first to defend people with high functioning autism but they still need boundaries.

She is a 19yo woman and PDA or not she is acting outrageously. You cannot tie yourself in knots like this.

From reading that you've moved heaven and earth to give her a good birthday in the past and it's always been wrong. Next year I'd just say the offer is there for a meal out / gifts / cake, but if you don't hear what she wants you'll just give her money and a takeaway and supermarket cake/bake her one.
I know you've said she has high expectations of birthdays and doesn't see money as a gift, but whatever you try is always wrong anyway.

Just stop trying OP. What’s the point she is clearly not happy with anything

I think it's time to take a step back and stop martyring yourself to someone who doesn't appreciate it. Your mental health matters too.

OP, you need to stop everything- you tried to make the birthday lovely for her because people are meant to celebrate birthdays and be happy and you’re going above and beyond, honestly. The things is it doesn’t work like that with ND brains (unless they get hung up on it, and then you have the birthday cake situation). Now, if you suspect PDA traits, she’s dealing with the pressure of being happy for her birthday because she cares about you but she can’t because it’s pressure and it’s not the spontaneous dopamine hit that overrides PDA momentarily.
There’s no fixing the cake or the presents. The idea that you have the option of buying something for yourself at some point with no guilt is present enough, the pressure to actually pick something ruins it, someone else picking things ruins it - she wants to spend ages thinking what she’d like- it’s fun (my dad every year asks what I’d like and then gets stressed when I don’t have a ready answer, which stresses me out- my bday is in July I only just bought myself a gift from him for my last one). To manage it for both of you tell her she gets to pick her presents in X budget and then stick that money into savings account for her (that you don’t tell her about) and then just buy whatever she settles on whenever that will be (or, equally likely, she’ll have a good chunk of house deposit at some point and that will be a great gift as she won’t expect it at all).
I’d completely depressurise bdays - don’t do a run up, on the day say happy birthday and ask how she’d like to spend the day. Think about things that make her happy not things that are birthday- so if she likes to spend a whole day watching tik toks and her favourite food is bubblegum icecream offer just actively doing that with her.

You might need to do a lot of work on helping her understand that celebrating birthday is about that person and there is no right way to do it- for some people it might be a party and a cake, for someone else free diving lessons in Maldives and yet someone else it could be spending the day in their pyjamas eating toast with butter while watching kpop demon hunters on a loop…her brain needs this spelled out and likely about now, with a few repeats every few months, so she can digest it before her next birthday.
Also, if you suspect PDA you might have to adjust that autistic lens you’re working with - there are overlaps but it’s like one of those optical illusions where you need to tilt your head for things to make sense.:)

Mine was out of education when she was in ND burnout. She behaved like this. Anything to avoid a decision and everything was a demand. EVERYTHING.

Shes much better now but still doesn’t like demands. And she will see doctors if she’s desperate. She fought off anti depressants for ages. As it got nearer to the start of university she knew she wouldn’t cope, so took herself off to GP.

Your Dd sounds still in burnout. It will improve as she gets better.

You will never be able to fully meet her wishes.

And that is ok

As adults, we have to accept that our wishes cannot always be met and that expecting another person to go to the moon and back to meet our wishes is not reasonable.

This is true for all of us. It will be harder (much harder) for her to learn that with ASD but her life will be much better for her when she does learn that.

You need to stop treading on eggshells around her and fearing her being upset

She is now 19. What is she doing to do over the next decade? She can stay at home with parents who tread on eggshells around her and make no progress in life.

But one day you will not be around any more. If she hasn't mastered basic social functioning - like not sobbing about cakes - she will not cope well without you.

She is now an adult. An adult with additional needs and with additional support required but an adult nonetheless.

You cannot always make her happy and nor should you. But you need to prepare her for a life without parents.

So you know this woman and know that she has no capability to understand how things impact others? And yes of course you should say that not all autistic people are incapable of it rather than just making a blanket statement 🙄

This is a huge issue for me. The temptation for me is to smooth everything out for my daughter, make things easier and not upset her.

However, the world will not operate in this way for her. I know she needs to learn how to work and relate to other people if she used to have any form of happiness and success in her life. So I take the tougher road now, it’s not easy and it has led to a situation where maybe sometimes our relationship is not as strong as it could be, but I simply can’t watch her launch into the world and not be able to compromise or relate to people in any meaningful way.

I am sorry you struggle with understanding context. That is your issue and not mine.

Waves to OP. I thought it was just me ...
We have this awful combo too. ASD/ADHD total inability to choose, even with plenty of warning/ lists. Yet want bdays / Xmas to be 'special'. Yet 'Mum choosing' doesn't feel right now aged 18 & 21. After this Christmas (a particular low, Ttee still up & gifts needing wrapped & unwrapped (by them) on 1st Feb.
Ooof.

@52andblue One gift (a voucher) next year 52. This isn’t ok.