To be upset that young women feel they have to mutilate themselves like this

[LandOfFruitAndNut]

For context ‘young’ in my book is anyone under 35. I am in my 50’s. Very much old crone territory and thankfully no amount of procedures could improve my bog standard appearance. Thankfully as I am over 50 I really couldn’t give a toss.

So - AIBU to think that any level of plastic surgery is unnecessary except for medical reasons and to be particularly upset that young women think they need it?

Young people are beautiful. Full stop. They are young, have fresh skin, bouncy hair and ooze youth. Why does society tell them that making their bottom extra round or their lips extra puffy will improve their lives immeasurably?

Because it is society. I don’t buy the ‘doing it for themselves’ for one minute. If it was just for them they wouldn’t be posting images of the new improved them over the internet usually with the support of some down lighting and a smoothing filter or two.

Is this yet another issue we can lay at the feet of the patriarchy or is the concept of beauty so skewed anyway that I should stop getting so exercised about it and go back to my knitting?(societal stereotype of 50 something woman for dramatic effect. I prefer decoupage)

I agree it is upsetting. I think one of the saddest things of recent years is realising that women’s equality as a cause is not as advanced as we thought. Sex stereotyping and pressures are alive and well. As mature and wise women it’s our job to guide young women to understand the number that is done on us as women.

I am someone who likes data, I analyse it for a living so I'm wondering what data this trend is based upon, what are the stats? If it is based upon a whim or a feeling then really you have internalised sexist views of womanhood that makes you believe in the narrative of being invisible over 50. I just don't see this where I live, in my social circle, at work amongst peers. In fact I remember one of my Dad's girlfriends saying this about twenty years ago when I was in my mid twenties and even then I thought she was part of the problem as she very much believed it and I think it almost became a self fulfilling prophecy!

I am definitively am old crone but quite happy with it. I do feel sorry for anyone who gets cosmetic surgery, botox etc, because I think they lack equanimity. Ageing is inevitable and natural. However I have been on Mumsnet long enough to know that floods of people will say they do it because it makes them happy, they look so much better, no-one knows they do it etc. Ultimately, to each their own, I still feel some pity for them though. Every year will be more a battle for them.

I think you have hit the nail on the head, being 'interesting', charismatic, curious are character traits that are attractive and they not generation dependent. Looks alone, being young are not by default going to stop you from being invisible. I mean, I don't even like that severity of this theory as it does have a spiteful tone to it. It also promotes the idea of looks being the most important factor in life which is presumably why these young women are mostly driven to have cosmetic treatments done in the first place- if they in fact do, I haven't seen the data so we don't know.

I agree. If someone from the Women’s Lib movement of the 60s came forward to this time they would be horrified at how little we’ve progressed in terms of women being valued for more than their looks.

do you genuinely never have a good haircut? Never wear make-up?
Step up one kind of exercise because you want to ton your belly or your bum a bit more? Or work on your arm definition a bit more?

It's a bit weird to pity people who use the tool they have to look better. We can have whiter teeth, straighter or more curly hair, less frown lines. I don't understand the "pity".

Do you pity me also because I pay for regular sport massage, that are not necessary as such, but make me feel better?

I have more flattering photos of me because of the work on my appearance. It doesn't remove anything from all my other attractive traits - it just add to them. I have the same achievements, I just look better.

Oops, missed that- apologies. I see researched by Mintel.
So when asked a high percentage would think about it but they haven't done it. Equally, if it's the same research to the one I ook d up then the most likely to think this are young millennials so not gen z as they have been most influenced by social media. I do wonder if being able to take an online questionnaire as a teenager in the 90s, the magazines perpetuating the idea of beauty as very, very thin alongside other specific notions of beauty, whether your average young person may have answered with a similar lack of confidence in one's own looks- I highly suspect they would have done.

Interesting about young millennials having the highest uptake as IMO many young people in Gen Z are completely rejecting social media because of the inauthenticity of it and missing out on real life.

Agree with pps there’s an ageist tone to your post OP. It’s not just young people ruining their faces with too much intervention. We need to have better attitudes towards ageing gracefully not that someone in their 50s is an old crone ffs. Look at Sylvie from Emily in Paris who is ageing so well in her 60s and ask if she is an old crone.

emilyinparis.fandom.com/wiki/Sylvie_Grateau

Cosmetic surgery is very very different from a haircut.

it's just another tool - botox and fillers are not surgery anyway.

It's the same thought process, having "pity" for people who use any kind of enhancements is a bit odd.

And sometimes we don't even care if it looks natural - sometimes it's for fun and because we like it.

it's just another tool - botox and fillers are not surgery anyway.

They are invasive procedures involving inserting things into the body. A haircut, makeup, hair dye are not.

Im 49, I’m definitely not an old crone!!

But what has it got to do with you?

Why are you and many others, so heavily invested in what they do with their money?

They are strangers to you.

The more people have these 'tweaks' the more the knock on effect on wider society.
For example, I've always been told how lovely and full my lips are. But now that fillers are trendy they actually look on the thinner side of "attractive". I was asked recently why I've never had fillers. I dont bloody need them.
Likewise, I've always looked young for my age. Nice skin and so on. But next to my friend who has botox I look old and tired. Next to my non filled friends I still look young. If they all got botox Id definitely look older by comparison.

Yay another thread about women bashing women and their choices whilst using ageist language and insulting posters. Brilliant…..just what we all need.

Botox and fillers are not plastic surgery but I get your point. If you don’t want to undergo any cosmetic procedures, don’t. If you don’t want to dye your hair, don’t. Don’t want to follow a skincare routine, don’t. I could go on all day!

Is that the line then, ‘inserting things into the body’? Like tampons then, or contraceptive implants, or fillings?

Yes. If the people who started these threads said "isn't it a shame that some young women are having procedures, because after all these years of progress the younger generation still think what they look like is worth so much time, money and discomfort. Maybe we should be working harder on showing them the great things women of all ages can experience, enjoy and offer the world, to which looks are irrelevant"
Then, maybe we'd be going somewhere.
But always, always, it's some version of women shouldn't have procedures because they LOOK BETTER without them. That its a shame beautiful young women are making themselves less aesthetically pleasing than we'd prefer them to be. That older women are invisible and worthless because they don't look as good as young people.
Always the obsession with women's looks. And not the slightest self awareness of the irony.

I don't think you have understood the OP at all. You seem to have taken it as a personal attack.

We've got a generation of young women who are turning themselves into identi-bot looking things, frozen faces, big lips and eyelashes the length of a hand.

Then middle age women trying to turn back time with their looks because they don't want to age.

That's it in a nutshell. Dont say you feel better without the wrinkles, because you're part of the problem why women feel the need to inject shit into their faces. Ageism right there.

Aging = wrinkles. Removing the signs of aging is supporting agist attitudes.

Have we though? The online research linked so sample of people will not be representative of young people as this research or other research the marketing company have done on this show that young millennials are most likely to think this not Gen Z because they conclude they are the generation that has been most influenced by social media. Secondly, the survey asks whether these young people would think about it, not if they have had these treatments and surgery. IMO young people have always been self critical of their looks and if such a survey had been taken in the 90s early 00s, I think you would find a similar response.
Equally, it is not just a Brit thing if you go skiing in wealthy destinations for example, you will see plenty of 'work' on all Europeans, it is in no way limited to people from the UK, that's ridiculous. I don't think it's prevalent at all unless you are in a certain demographic.

I hate it too OP. Everyone looks the same and they all look bad. I’m extremely ordinary looking and have ever been more grateful for it. An odd side effect of this culture is as I start to age more rapidly (I’m early forties) it’s making me love by wrinkles and character lines. When I see an older woman who looks natural now I think it looks so much better than the botoxed and filled alternative

Aging (also) = grey hair and post menopausal weight gain.
Do you think its ageism when women dye their greys or diet and go to the gym to keep a trim and youthful figure?
And before you say, that's different because it's not injecting poison, I'm asking about your overarching principle on this. Because you seem to be suggesting that unless a woman wears her signs of aging she is contributing to ageism, and surely it would follow just as much for grey hair (arguably a much more visible sign of aging) as crows feet?
My personal view is that if every woman stopped using procedures it wouldn't make the slightest difference to ageism in our society.
There is a strong strand of youth fetishism running through it (the OP drips with it) which seems to be getting worse rather than better, as at least there was a time when age was equated with wisdom and experience, and afforded some respect.
We have now largely dispensed with this in favour of the idea that older people are out of touch, a nuisance and a barrier to the new and shiny (see the 'boomer' threads) and older women bear the brunt of this (see the MiL threads). This is the problem that needs addressing. These are the attitudes that make older women feel particularly despised and 'invisible'. The fact that some botox away their wrinkles hasn't caused this.

There’s something so depressing as well about OPs argument that all young people are beautiful and women over 50 are ‘old crones’ that feeds into the narrative that youth is inherently better and more attractive. It’s that argument that fuels young women getting interventions in the first place!

☝Totally agree.

I don't think the OP sees the irony in her posts that she is reinforcing ageism.

If you think this, you’ve never had highlights pulled through a highlighting cap.

Much more painful and invasive than Botox any day 😂