To think that it IS inconsistent to judge men who buy sex but not women who sell it (excluding women who are trafficked/traumatised/acting from financial necessity)?

[Carla786]

The thread today where the OP claimed to have been an escort had quite a few posters saying that they don't judge women who sell sex, only men who buy it.

Now, I think that most women selling sex are trafficked and/or doing so from financial necessity and/or suffering from sexual trauma.

So I don't judge them. But I do judge the minority of women, who DO exist, who sell sex when they have other viable options, are financially OK, often educated etc. Ditto men. They are all contributing willingly to an industry which devalues sex, intimacy and the human body.

It does seem inconsistent to exempt women (and men) who sell sex completely from judgement. Denying that women can willingly prop up harmful industries isn't feminist.

AIBU?

Ok she’s living in that society but she’s also reinforcing and profiting from that society. What’s the balance between not being part of the problem and ‘don’t hate the player, hate the game’ mentality?

Also, allow me to point out that I didn't define ALL men as doing, that only those who buy sex.

Exactly

I’ve witnessed fair share of weirdness and ugly reality, like with any job. And know some that have more so. Meeting men /women from all walks of life with differing trauma. Of course want to hear about it all. I know about it all. Because been in the industry.

If you have also, and are talking from personal experience. I didn’t see that in your posts?

The OP was asking others opinions on the inconsistency to judge men who buy sex but not women who sell it. (Excluding women who are traffic/traimatised etc)

I know that I demand a man be seven feet tall and have eight-pack abs, or I won't even bother putting on lipstick.

I don’t think people are particularly moral beings. There is so much evidence to the contrary that it is hard to even conceive that we are particularly well wired for morality at all.

We are wired for survival and chase pleasurable activities that are rewarding to our brain. I don’t think everyone views sex the same way either so getting too highly strung moralising about it is a bit of a luxury belief that really has only been possible in this brief period in time where particularly in the western world we have our basic needs for survival or food and shelter met. The second survival needs are compromised at all prostitution goes up enormously poverty, addiction, war etc.

I hate how men as a sex treat women as a sex and prostitution is one of many ways this shows up. Like most ways men mistreat women it is justified in the ways men justify everything minimising harm, denial of harm, darvoing by blaming the prostitutes, etc that is why I see it as a male issue not a female one.

No, but you’ll see a fair few women who will doll themself up to ‘bag the man’, get that ring, produce kids and expect him to foot the bill for life and not want to go back to work.

I'm disinterested in discussing exactly what my experiences are with people like yourself.

And I've answered OP's question - in your case, yes, I do judge you, something which I think I have made clear. Women can absolutely contribute to and prop up practices that harm other women. Of course, their motivations are usually different to men's, and I'll always judge men more.

Yes, but that isn't equivalent to sex work the way NumbersGuy seemed to be implying.

Or do you think it is?

You put the exceptions in your title and however much sex workers say they don't fall into any of those categories I think that is unlikely to be true. Even if there are exceptions the vast majority of sex workers will fall into one of those categories and you are being unreasonable to judge them.

I think many of these women will be storing up problems for themselves. Feeling 'empowered' smacks of untruth to me, what a weird way to describe your paid work.

Their bodies will likely carry trauma, however much they're trying to convince themselves it is great and empowering..

I just don't buy female sexual empowerment in any of the ways it is currently proclaimed. We are so entrenched and immersed in the sexualisation of female bodies, I think very few women are truly able to experience sexuality without seeing themselves from the outside constantly.

I don’t think everyone views sex the same way either so getting too highly strung moralising about it is a bit of a luxury belief that really has only been possible in this brief period in time where particularly in the western world we have our basic needs for survival or food and shelter met. The second survival needs are compromised at all prostitution goes up enormously poverty, addiction, war etc.

• I think there is a contradiction here though. Women are biologically more likely, if we're going evopsych, to bond with a sexual partner and to seek commitment (with many exceptions) and to have lower sociosexuality. Women who are in war zones and suffering from addiction, or in harder historical periods, probably mostly didn't view sex differently to how most women now do. Moreover, mores about sex were often stricter in the past globally. They just had to sell it to meet their survival needs, as you say.

The likes of Bonnie blue are I agree a shame to society and making it socially openly acceptable for men to line up and degrade her and say she’s liberated after queues of men turning up? I don’t follow her story that much but she’s making a mockery of a wide range of aspects that are concerning for society

Hey, that reminds me of the Margaret Attwood quote from The Robber Bride : 'Even pretending you aren't catering to male fantasies is a male fantasy: pretending you're unseen, pretending you have a life of your own, that you can wash your feet and comb your hair unconscious of the ever-present watcher peering through the keyhole, peering through the keyhole in your own head, if nowhere else. You are a woman with a man inside watching a woman. You are your own voyeur.'

I agree it was degrading but otoh it seemed quite predatory on her part. She was seeking 'barely legal' teen boys, she's 26 or so. If a 26yo man were doing that with college girls the emphasis wouldn't be on his own degradation/victimisation.

It suits the ‘industry’ to have women saying they do it because they want to and to be empowered or whatever. Then customers can kid themselves on with this fantasy and that it’s not so bad what they are doing.

No idea why BB does what she does but it is clearly very far outside of societal norms. So she is a very unusual person and something has made her that way, we don’t know what.

OK, but plenty of women don't behave like this :

So if a female goes out looking for a man to buy them drinks, buy them dinner, pay their home bills, etc. all center around the potential offer of sex. Also known for looking for "simps" who will be willing to part with their money

I just think women throughout society have been known to use their femininity feminine powers in every day life to get the job role step up, or bag the man to marry, or what have you. And men will use their own ways to get what or where they want to be. That’s life. But think going slightly off the original threat topic title.

Average age is 13 in the US iirc - there is a documentary on Youtube called Very Young Girls that explores girls' entry into sex work in greater detail if interested

Hot Girls Wanted is also a great one that dismantles the 'free independent choice' idea in real time, through the girls' POV as they navigate the industry

You mean like getting jobs from Harvey Weinstein? Most women I know who get jobs do so on the basis of experience and education and while a few use charm to overcome deficiency in CVs I’m pretty sure men try the same tactic.

26 year old (and older) men have been doing that and until very recently it was not only acceptable but encouraged.

I also can’t think of a single person who views Bonnie Blue as anything positive - either gross and disturbing or with pity and concern (or both). It’s not like there’s loads of women cheerleading her sleeping with 18 year olds so not quite sure the point tbh?

"Financial necessity" an interesting term on a welfare state from presumably people who have capacity.

Don't judge the prostitute as she may have been sexually abused? It is well known that many women who have been sexually abused go onto prostitution. Ok it's also well known that a lot of people who were abused become abusers. I don't think we would accept this would we?

There are a lot of jobs we would refuse to do due to ethics, standards, morality or cultural/political feelings - even if we needed the money.

Women are not fragile icky bicky little porcelain dolls.

I judge the men more, I think it's morally better to not have as much money as you want and do something about it than not to have as much access to other people's bodies as you want and doing something about it.

Women ‘throughout society’ have been ‘known’. Do you know these women then or what is this based on? This is obviously how we have managed to achieve wide ranging equality in the workplace and equal pay. By using our feminine wiles.

It's more that several people on this thread seem to see her more as a victim or wonder what trauma etc she may have. With 'pity and concern' as you say. A man doing this would not be viewed in that way, probably.

Otoh I get this...but otoh she's still an adult seeking out 18yos for these horrible stunts.