To think that it IS inconsistent to judge men who buy sex but not women who sell it (excluding women who are trafficked/traumatised/acting from financial necessity)?

[Carla786]

The thread today where the OP claimed to have been an escort had quite a few posters saying that they don't judge women who sell sex, only men who buy it.

Now, I think that most women selling sex are trafficked and/or doing so from financial necessity and/or suffering from sexual trauma.

So I don't judge them. But I do judge the minority of women, who DO exist, who sell sex when they have other viable options, are financially OK, often educated etc. Ditto men. They are all contributing willingly to an industry which devalues sex, intimacy and the human body.

It does seem inconsistent to exempt women (and men) who sell sex completely from judgement. Denying that women can willingly prop up harmful industries isn't feminist.

AIBU?

@EyePieSky seems to think that anecdotes are useful data on their own - but while anecdotes can be interesting, they generally are most persuasive with actual data that backs up their veracity.

Clearly you know far more than I do about these things than I do 🤷‍♀️

Considering you both don't appear to have researched it, and also rely on the anecdotes your friends tell you... Then yes, I probably do know more.

Yes, you clearly do 😅

A significant proportion of people who sell sex are doing it under duress and suffer harm and distress. Buying sex in full knowledge of that fact is wrong.

People who buy sex are not doing it under duress or suffering harm and distress. Selling sex in view of that fact is not wrong.

I have a client who is an escort. I've known her for 20 years. She does it because, firstly, she likes sex but doesn't want a "life" partner, and secondly, it affords her a very good standard of living for "working" relatively few hours. She's educated and articulate and previously went to Uni and had a professional career. She started escort work in her 30's! She "works" probably an average of 10 hours per week, but she's very expensive (something like £300 per hour on average and £1k-£2k for a full day/weekend which will often include a theatre/dinner/dance date/art gallery visit etc). She has her own website and is definitely her own "boss", i.e. no pimp etc. She used to do more "one offs" and quick jobs, but over the years, she now has her own regular clients so often she'll just do a weekend with one client and nothing else for the rest of the week and then the following week, she'll do, say an hour or two each day for lots of different clients (mostly regulars). Alongside that, she has her own hobbies, friends, etc., for days out, holidays, etc. She's about as far from your stereotypical view of a "street hooker" as you could imagine - if you met her out and about, you'd never in a million years think she was an escort as she looks and acts like a "normal" person. No one is forcing her to do anything, it's entirely her own personal lifestyle choice. She's now in her 50's and still working, and plans to continue as long as her clients continue to book her - as her long term clients are also growing old, it seems to work well.

Be prepared for posters to come and tell you your a liar and know nothing 😅

Not bothered what other people think. I know her and I've being preparing and submitting her tax returns for a couple of decades, declaring her income (and expenses!!), so I know the truth of what she says and I've seen her website, which also backs up exactly what she tells me (part of accountant's required "due diligence").

Interesting, thank you. How common is this situation among UK women selling sex though?

Moreover, why do the men who visit her long-term do so? I think it'd arguably unhelpful, in that it's simulated intimacy. I assume they are not in long term relationships?

Don't long term escort visits arguably have negative effects in that they encourage men (who are more likely to be isolated and vulnerable in older age, especially if single) to focus on a simulated relationship rather than a real one?

Well maybe in the above case the men can’t form a long term relationship or don’t want to. Maybe they are already in a long term relationship and have a family. Maybe they can’t attract a woman like the escort who wants to be their partner. Who knows.

Wow.. huge pile on here and I know I am going to be in for it. My side hussle is in the sex industry, I don't do contact work for my own reasons but for some of my regulars.. it has crossed my mind. The space that I work in is run by women. I really enjoy the work, its fun, I have met a lot of interesting people (shock.. some of my clients are women!!), I decide when I work and who I work with. I also speak to other providers and they are very much the same as me, enjoy sex, haven't been coerced into anything and really enjoy what we're doing. A lot of women are forced into sex work (my day job is around combating this) but not all. Guess what... I haven't been sexually abused or had a particularly traumatic past either. Please stop making huge assumptions about the women that engage in sex work, you aren't helping those of us that chose it or those of us that don't. Pearl clutching and forcing it into the shadows is what makes it so easy for women to be exploited.

As for the men I work with, its a real mixed bag, some just want a thrill, some are lonely, some are bored in their marriages or for some reason can't talk to their wives about very normal desires.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but the opinions being presented as facts on this thread are just ridiculous. Maybe get your heads out of google and speak to people that are involved in the industry.

I understand she has quite a few regular "clients" who are elderly or disabled so either would struggle to find a long term partner or who feel they are too old to start a new long term relationship. And many clients want "more" than sex, they want a partner to go for a fancy meal, or theatre, or a weekend away, etc., with sex only being part of the overall package.

I don't think the average married bloke would be wanting to pay £300 for a quick shag - that's not her "target client" at all, hence the high charges - such people would almost certainly find a cheaper option or have an affair.

They all say that. Painting themselves as a saviour to the ugly, old and disabled, when truly they’re only interesting is making cash by selling sex no matter who wants to buy it, it’s easier money with a higher price tag by screwing the vulnerable in society. Hardly a savour, good marketing more like.

The question is then, do the benefits to your friend, and others like her, of not criminalising the buying of sex, outweigh the very significant costs/damage of prostitution overall?

I'd say no. The very wide ranging harms it causes to society, and to many coerced/trafficked/vulnerable individuals, and to the perceived status of women & girls, are much more important than pandering to a tiny number of 'happy hookers'.

We, for example, ban smoking in public places, selling/possessing cocaine, and driving without a seatbelt. All of which are very frustrating to some people in the UK. Tough. It's the law.

And it should also be the law that renting someone else's body to use and abuse for sex is an illegal act.

Criminalising the buying of sex is only the beginning, of course. For example, there'll need to be increased support and exit routes for prostitutes to escape. Plus additional funding for specialised police officers, ideally females will be key. The Unbuyable Bill was not a perfect policy intervention, but it'd be a great start, to then build on.

Criminalisation makes a very clear statement to men and boys that sexual consent cannot be bought. Consent must be made enthusiastically and freely, else it's an unwanted abusive assault. A true 'yes' never ever needs money.

And it tells women and girls, that no, men cannot rent your bodies by the hour. You are deserving of respect and dignity.

Your 'happy hooker' friend could probably hide well under the police radar. Difficult to prosecute if she's going on all those lovely 'dates' first. And as she's not got a long history of A&E visits/broken bones/STDs, homelessness, substance addiction, growing up in care or abused as a child, it'll be tough to build a robust case against her unusually small number of punters.

I do wonder what the ratio is between her 'happy hooker' and the much more common horror/terror stories?

Very, very few men have hundreds of pounds to cover a nice outing and a £300 fee on a regular basis. So probably 1 in a 100 or fewer? That's clearly unacceptable to anyone bar a sociopath.

So ban the buying of sex.

That's what I think to some extent: I DO think that in that kind of case, where someone is choosing to do it in that way, no history of sexual trauma etc, while I still think it's wrong to buy someone's sexual services, I also think there's a strong case that

I read a blog by a madam once (who markets herself as a voice of sex workers in places like the Washington Post but actually doesn't sell sex herself much at all) and got the strong impression a lot of her personal clients were, despite her protestations of 'providing help', being encouraged to put a sticking plaster on their intimacy etc problems rather than try to fix them. Visiting an escort also trains men to expect the kind of attentiveness/compliance that wouldn't be reasonable to expect non-reciprocally from an actual partner.

So you're not doing contact sex work? Most people on this thread are more concerned about people who are.

If such women exist, and I'm not convinced they do, even those who think they're doing it from free will have probably been groomed or exploited in some way (that's what grooming is), it's theirs to sell.

The men buying can't possibly know that their prostitute isn't one of the exploited ones.

Are the men buying the sex doing it to ‘improve their future life’?

Men who buy sex don’t know and don’t care if the women they’re using have been trafficked or coerced. They’re (imo) akin to rapists.

The majority of women who do sell sex are victims. They obviously don’t deserve judgement or blame.

Im not convinced women exist who do it as an entirely free choice. If they did exist, I’d judge them for being part of a system of exploitation. But nowhere near as much as them sex-offender men.