To think that it IS inconsistent to judge men who buy sex but not women who sell it (excluding women who are trafficked/traumatised/acting from financial necessity)?

[Carla786]

The thread today where the OP claimed to have been an escort had quite a few posters saying that they don't judge women who sell sex, only men who buy it.

Now, I think that most women selling sex are trafficked and/or doing so from financial necessity and/or suffering from sexual trauma.

So I don't judge them. But I do judge the minority of women, who DO exist, who sell sex when they have other viable options, are financially OK, often educated etc. Ditto men. They are all contributing willingly to an industry which devalues sex, intimacy and the human body.

It does seem inconsistent to exempt women (and men) who sell sex completely from judgement. Denying that women can willingly prop up harmful industries isn't feminist.

AIBU?

springdafs it fits into the debate as a reason as to why some men use prostitutes.
Why do YOU think a supposedly happily coupled up man, who has no intention of ever leaving his partner uses a prostitute?
Could it be the type of sex/degradation he wishes to inflict on a female? Could it be that he would never expect to piss on his wife’s face whilst choking her and calling her a fucking whore for example? Again men do see women as 1) a woman I want to spend my life with and raise a family with
2) a woman I want to fuck,
I’m not condoning it. It’s very sad, but it is a reality in a lot of cases.
A lot of men who use prostitutes are not single.
Dh once worked very fleetingly with a man who told everybody that he couldn’t wait for Friday night as he had been squirrelling money away to pay a prostitue ( he called her an escort) to spend the weekend with him. I can assure you that he did not intend taking her out for dinner and discussing politics with her. He was a so called happily married man. A grandad too. He was working away from home and his family had no idea that this was what he got up to. He couldn’t wait to tell all the men exactly what he had done to the prostitute. Things he would not expect his respectable wife to tolerate. That’s the reality.

Thanks @Amiacoolorwarmcolour - thats loads clearer in my mind and oddly tjst thought was only on the periphery of my mind. My honest answer prior to reading your response would be; to have sex with a woman who wouldn't be interested in him, novelty value and variety. Mainly a fragile ego and low self worth which they are trying to prop up by telling themselves they are attractive to someone (despite the obvipus truth). Married men ivd known to regularly have sexwith prostitutes have been not having the sex they want (quantity/quality) at home, but more so its misplaced passive aggressive anger at their spouse/the world, bit of course mainly their own inadequacies. I now see it a bit differently and altogether more unpleasant and sinister. Thanks

There are lots of male escorts 😅 more than you would realise. Lots of women pay for sex from male escorts, they just don't talk about it

You think it's astoundingly rare but it really isn't 😅

It clearly depends on what worlds you know / are in. A quick look on any of the sites I mentioned would quickly debunk that theory

Lots of people do sell sex because they feel they have no choice / no other options / trauma ect

And lots of people sell sex because they enjoy it, like it and enjoy the lifestyle

B*llocks. That's really not true.

According to the third National Survey of Sexual Attitudes and Lifestyles (Natsal-3) conducted between 2010 & 2012 in Britain, less than 1% of women reported ever having paid for sex. In a (not really at all) shocking contrast, roughly 11% of men reported having paid for sex in their lifetime.

May I ask, would you be referencing those lovely 'upgraded' women with a penis and Y-chromosome?

Agree with you there @KitWyn - ive got a lot of life experience in this area and I only know of one occasion when a XXwoman tried to find a male prostitute. She was unable to find a suitable candidate so gave up. Im sure she would find someone now on an app, fabswingers etc but not when she was looking!

I don’t a single woman who has ever paid for sex. I’m not including women who have watched male strippers or porn etc.
I do know many many women who have had sex with lots of different men. Fwb, one night stands, casual sex, swingers, fetish groups, sex clubs and so on. I’ve also met women who are married and have at least one other sexual partner.
I just don’t think most women have to pay for sex of any variety. They can get it for free and with attractive men.
Women tend not to think less of men who they have sex with either, strangely a lot of men do. Just look at all this body count nonsense.

It definetly is true 😅, lots of women do/have paid for sex. Most won't say that outloud and do a survey about it though,

How can you say it's not true, just because you don't know anyone whose paid for it/ what a survey says 😅

According to surveys there's so many % of rape cases..... but if I said there's only this % due to surveys, your answer should be "lots of women dont/won't report/ do surveys"

Just because it isn't on a survey, doesn't mean it isn't true 😅

Do you mean trans? What has that got to do at all with what we are talking about?

How offensive that because I'm telling you my own experience/ the people I know, your now trying to insinuate somthing about me and men who dress up as women? Is this how you usually have discussions?

By your own experience, do you mean you? And under what circumstances did your women friends hire a male escort? Why waste their money? Why not seek out a zero-commitment fling?

We are all, by definition, just the one data point. And the vast majority of the available research supports my personal observations within my own close circle. So there's that too.

Sex with an actual woman for a straight man offers many significant benefits above the same orgasm alone. Even to the point that 11% of men reported paying for this at some point.

I understand that it's much more complicated than that for most biological women. Not least the physical safety aspect, and a much greater focus on wanting to be desired for yourself.

Genuinely interested in any evidence you have to rebut this.

No I meant from my own experience of people I know / their friends. Lots do because its safer, they trust the reviews of the hundreds before them, some lack confidence and feel better with someone who isn't going to make them feel insecure about the way they look ect or their just kinky and want to explore that with someone experienced 8

The male escort I know ( not someone I've ever paid 😅 ) is very very popular, I'm tempted to post his ecort page tbh as that shows all the reviews he's had from women and or couples

But, I can see I'm just speaking into a void here

People clearly don't want to believe that lots of women do / have paid for sex for their own personal reasons and that's fine, it's along the same lines as refusing to believe someone is a pedophile or someone is an abusive man/ someone is a racist, just because you don't see it or hear about it or havnt experienced it, does not mean it isn't true 🤦‍♀️

Also - what on earth would I gain from lying about somthing like this 🤣

The exact same thing that some posters gain from talking about all the 'happy hookers' they know or how empowering they've found being involved in 'sex work'.

They desperately want to believe this to be true. So they lie to themselves and everyone else. The giveaway is normally how much repetition there is in their posts. These are the mantras that comfort them, so they'll continue posting them long after it makes any kind of logical sense to continue.

It's very closely aligned with the gender identity nonsense. The sunk costs are too enormous to reverse course. If you can't change sex, then all the medications, the painful surgeries, the lost jobs & other opportunities, isolation from family & old friends, and so many other heartbreaks, were for nought. They put their life on hold, spent so much time, attention and money, all in pursuit of an impossible fantasy.

Similarly, if you can't buy consent to sex (NB: you can't) then he, as a punter, is an abuser of vulnerable women. And she, as the prostitute, has been cruelly used by hundreds of vile & abusive men. No that can't be true; sex work IS work, and 'Pretty Woman' is a documentary

Wouldn't you tell yourself lots and lots of comforting lies too?

There's just no getting through to people like you 😅

Your right, your just completely right and all the women / male escorts I know are all liars and don't enjoy their lifestyle at all, there's no male escorts at all as women would never pay for sex 😅

As for the transsexuals? I have no idea, i don't like it, don't care about it, didn't bring them up?

I'm off to tell my male escort friend that he's a liar and he's being abused by women who pay him for sex

Notice how you replied basically to yourself as you didn't address anything I said aside from somthing about happy hookers... people like you clearly just want to believe what they want 😅🤦‍♀️

'Selling sex is empowering to a lot of women'

Really, mate? 😅

Yes, escorts sell sex. Male escorts are in danger, but usually from men not women. Men are most of the clients, anyway.

I think women might have a mentality that a particular man is OK to have a fling with but not as a long term prospect, but not a Madonna/Whore thing the way many men do.

The stats seem to indicate 12% of men use prostitutes, and 1% of women...but funnily enough, in this article talking about 'women' using prostitutes, guess who's being interviewed about being a woman who uses prostitutes...?

You guessed it - a man who identifies as a woman, and is therefore counted as a 'woman who uses prostitutes',* skewing the stats *😐 So how do we know how many of that 1% of women are actually men?

Why haven't you given your male escort friend a go? He obviously must be great at sex if he's doing so well as an escort with women and couples, and he might give you mates' rates.

If there's nothing weird about sex work, and it's just work, then why wouldn't you at least have one session?

I mean, I know if I had a friend who was amazing at doing acrylic nails for instance, and had loads of great reviews, I'd love to pay to get my nails done by her once (despite not being a person who ever gets my nails done otherwise) because why not?

I said upthread

"I commented on the post your talking about, my old fwb is a male escort, his partner is a female escort, they worked together/ separately, both started in uni and..."

I didn't pay him though hence him being a fwb

You just keep making yourself look foolish 🤦‍♀️

I notice again how you failed to have a reasonable discussion and keep trying to be insulting?

Making myself look foolish by forgetting one small part of a comment that I wasn't replying to, the following day? If you say so. And I'm not wrong, anyway - you haven't given him a paying go. Who knows, it might be a whole different experience, with all the bells and whistles, especially now he has years more practice!

How is it insulting, anyway? What's insulting about it? Unless you think using prostitutes is something negative and shameful...?

And I notice you didn't reply to my comment above, about how men who identify as women are counted in the stats of 'women using prostitutes'.

I didn't answer because I didn't see it, now that I have, it's irrelevant to what I was saying as I never mentioned transsexuals did I? I mentioned the male/female escorts that I know 🤦‍♀️

No, just the way your saying it is insulting, very goady clearly looking for some sort of argument Why haven't you given your male escort friend a go? He obviously must be great at sex if he's doing so well as an escort with women and couples, and he might give you mates' rates

You know you were trying to be a dick when you wrote that.

Anyway, I won't be replying to you again as you clearly can't have a reasonable discussion without trying to be goady 🤦‍♀️

E erything I have wrote is facts that I know to be true, the things you have wrote you've got off Google 🤦‍♀️

You said:

There are lots of male escorts 😅 more than you would realise. Lots of women pay for sex from male escorts, they just don't talk about it

So in return, I have pointed out that it seems as though both only 1% of women use prostitutes, and we don't know how many of that stat are actually men who identify as women. Which means that your entirely anecdotal 'lots of women' is unhelpful and irrelevant.

You know you were trying to be a dick when you wrote that.

Was I? Why? What's dickish about asking if you've used a very skilled and well-recommended friend's professional services? As I said, I'd go to a friend who did nails, or hire a builder friend, or commission art from a friend, or get a back massage from a friend who was a masseuse...

So I genuinely wondered why you felt the need to point out that 'you'd never paid him' rather emphatically, with a '😅' emoji, and also wondered why you hadn't done so. It's almost as though you think there's something shameful about it?

(I'd either not read, or had forgotten that you'd said he was a fwb, but still, you'd think you might give him another whirl out of curiosity.)

The fact is that the vast, vast majority of women in prostitution are doing so of their own free will and volition. If you were to believe mumsnet, you'd swear they were all sex slaves imported from the other side of the planet being held at gunpoint. I don't judge them.

If you look on Pistonheads or Reddit there's quite a few threads about paying for sex. Interesting to see the 'clients' perspectives. Quite a few negative comments on Pistonheads too, though. Men on Reddit tend to be creepier because of all the porn subreddits

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=210&t=1686097

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=210&t=2024655

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=210&t=1018391

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=210&t=1644234

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp%3Fh%3D0%26f%3D210%26t%3D1291038&ved=2ahUKEwiJn97-oO6SAxU5UUEAHc7rOT44ChAWegQIOxAB&usg=AOvVaw2mSzYrgbrdhyGGnQGvjv89

Why do you think most women who sell sex decide to do that?

The problem with your credibility @EyePieSky is here: ' E erything I have wrote is facts that I know to be true, the things you have wrote you've got off Google'

We are all "writing facts we know to be true" so in order to be sure where the objective truth lies, we need some evidence. If you could supply that- it would help your case no end and it would be super interesting to read as well.