Despite his villainous behaviour, anyone feel a teeny bit sorry for Andrew?

[busymomtoone]

Before I get totally flamed, I despise his attitude, and the things he appears to have done - particularly the subsequent lying and apparent determination to shield/ hide misdemeanours. However, seeing the photo of his release today looking a broken man after such huge public downfall , plus thinking of him going back to an empty house on his birthday with no family support - even though I initially felt he deserves every indignity and consequence - there’s still a teeny part of me that just can’t help feeling just a little bit sorry for him. If it’s true that he was taken to a brothel at age 11 , whilst it would in no way excuse abusing others , it means he has also been a victim of abuse. Additionally it seems the Queen and his entourage have never ever said no to him in his whole life- so to reach his 7th decade before any consequences hit makes me question how resilient he will be able to be. Obviously main sympathies are always rightly with any victims , but even the most hardened and perpetual criminals often retain family support, he seems to have nobody. ( albeit if his own making ) or am I just being too soft?!

I agree. I can think of tens of families that would do a far better job ours included.

Musing as to whether the wealth and fawning corrupts them or if they were greedy lazy and sly to begin with

At this point in time he hasn’t been charged with anything

We quite obviously know that.

not to mention the best legal teams, that can work magic so to speak

heres a basic summary :

The British royal family contributes to the UK in several key ways that go beyond just ceremony.

First, they provide a focus for national identity, unity, and stability. The monarch acts as head of state in a non-political role, offering continuity through traditions like the State Opening of Parliament, Remembrance Sunday, or Christmas broadcasts. This helps unite people across divides, especially in tough times, and gives a sense of shared history and pride.

Second, they boost the economy, particularly through tourism. Places like Buckingham Palace, Windsor Castle, and the Tower of London (with the Crown Jewels) draw millions of visitors—many overseas tourists list royal sites as must-sees. Studies estimate the monarchy adds hundreds of millions annually in tourism revenue, plus knock-on effects for hotels, shops, and brands linked to "royal" prestige (think Royal Warrants boosting sales).

Third, they support a huge range of charities and voluntary work. Working royals are patrons of over 1,000 organisations, highlighting causes from mental health and the environment (like Prince William's Earthshot Prize) to humanitarian aid. They complete thousands of engagements yearly, shining a spotlight on community efforts, local heroes, and issues that matter.

Finally, on the global stage, they deliver soft power and diplomacy. State visits, hosting world leaders, and Commonwealth ties build relationships, open trade doors, and promote British values and culture without getting into party politics—something elected leaders can't always do as freely.

The official cost (via the Sovereign Grant) is around £1-2 per person yearly, funded from Crown Estate profits rather than direct taxes in a straightforward way. While debates exist about the full picture (including security), many argue the cultural, economic, and diplomatic returns far outweigh it. Overall, the family represents the UK in a unique, enduring way that few other institutions could match.

I don't think it's a question of feeling sorry for him but you can see how it happened. It is the result of a person who is not particularly intelligent born into great wealth and privilege who was, from the outset, spoilt and indulged, not told off for being rude or given a very strong moral compass. I have known people like it. Narcissists who are a shell; they lack a good and strong inner core.

Epstein and Maxwell were incredibly skilled at schmoozing and grooming the vulnerable. Both Andrew MBW and SF were vulnerable and of the belief that they were untouchable. And once they became involved and got a taste for what could be provided by JE & GM, they became addicted to the friendship and all that it provided them with. Gorged themselves with all the stuff that they enjoyed and thought they were above consequences. Thought they were above the Law and the intelligence services.

I find it particularly difficult to wrap my head around them involving their daughters in the friendship with JE & GM. I think again, a lot of grooming, charming and a lack of morality and intelligence made it all seem okay.

The RF have to publicly shun AMW but I don't believe he will be privately cast out. His ex-wife and his daughters will not go no contact with him; they have always had one another's backs. I do think that his daughters probably are struggling with how they should feel about their parents and what they did, though.

I have a lot of admiration for Virginia Guiffre, I think she was an incredibly brave woman who spoke out despite all kinds of awful threats.

There is so much wrong with every paragraph of your post that I honestly do not know where to begin.
It's the usual stuff by Royalists and a lot of massaging of actual facts.

Isn’t that picture of Prince Edward’s son. It looks very like him

What exactly is weird about the picture

Also why are we saying that a ball looks like a breast when it looks like it has got what looks like felt butterfly’s struck to it.

by all means go point by point and make a counter arguments, it would be intriguing to read your points

He’s entitled, lecherous, rude, snobbish and none too intelligent. He enjoys sex with young women, uses prostitutes and probably gives no thought at all to the lives of the people around him whom he just sees as staff. He’s abused his position as trade envoy, conflict of interest doesn’t begin to cover it. No one has come out publicly to say anything positive about him. However, I am a bit uncomfortable with the glee at his downfall. There’s something quite vengeful and sadistic about it. We seem to be projecting all sorts of things onto him- pedophilia, torture chambers etc. Some of this is skidding into the realms of morbid fantasy. My hope is for a full investigation into his business/ financial dealings and an overdue examination of the royal family’s financial affairs as a whole.

I agree, another example of stuff being projected onto anything he’s ever done. Even if it is a ball that looks like a breast- is that so heinous?

Poor sheep. 😁

… sorry, I think my original post applies to you too. I really hope you haven’t read the entireity of the files. It you have and this is your attitude you are just as bad as them.

Have you read any of the information coming out from the Epstein emails?
Experts were asked how can we make babies suck harder, play recordings of their mothers voices was the reply. That's just one example of how sick and depraved epstein and his friends are.

Do you have children? Look at them, babies and think of the toddlers, young children, pre teens and women were tortured, mutilated, raped and murdered on that island.

I'll save my sympathy for the victims of pedophiles not the pedophiles themselves.

wow.

Are you ok?

🤢🤢🤢

On another thread an AWM apologist wrote that if any of us had emails from 20 plus years aired in public then we would find some that would make us hang our heads in shame, there but for the grace go all of us etc.

I can find e-mails in my old Yahoo account going back to 2004 and funnily enough none of them pertain to criminal activity and abuse. Most people said or did cringeworthy stuff when they were younger but AWM’s behaviour falls well beyond ‘embarrassing’.

And I wish people would stop claiming that the poor man was used and manipulated by more intelligent and darker forces as if he’s a victims in all this.

@HawkinsLabsColdwarEra
First, they provide a focus for national identity, unity, and stability. The monarch acts as head of state in a non-political role, offering continuity through traditions like the State Opening of Parliament, Remembrance Sunday, or Christmas broadcasts. This helps unite people across divides, especially in tough times, and gives a sense of shared history and pride.
This is a matter of opinion. All of those events you specify, would happen with or without a Monarchy.

Your paragraph on tourism is a total myth. You know that really, but it is a favourite of royalists.
No one comes to the UK expecting to see a Royal. All our historical and stately buildings and palaces would still be there if there was no Monarchy. In fact there is an argument that revenue would be far exceeded if the 29 royal estates, palaces, and buildings owned by the Crown Estate which, incidentally, is not the Monarch's private property, could be opened for tourism.

Royal patronages. Have a careful read of this. Having a royal patron does not help a charity apart from, perhaps a feel good element. It doesn't increase donations, and more often than not Royals are not even involved with the charities they are patrons of!
https://giving-evidence.com/2020/07/16/royal-findings/

Finally, on the global stage, they deliver soft power and diplomacy. State visits, hosting world leaders, and Commonwealth ties build relationships, open trade doors
That worked well for Andrew didn't it?

As for finances, I would be here all day if I answered that question. Just think of the poor cash strapped councils who have to shell out for security when a Royal turns up for a PR exercise. Security is an unknown cost be thought to be up to £150million. There is far more I could say on this but I am trying to be brief.

many argue the cultural, economic, and diplomatic returns far outweigh it.
Who are 'many'? Who are these people? Polls which are oft quoted on here show support for the Monarchy at 62%. Bear in mind that is 12 points away from half the country not interested in them.

You seem to argue that monarchy is essential to tradition or cultural identity. But national identity is not static. Countries reinvent themselves all the time—through art, values, shared history, and civic pride. A nation can celebrate its past without needing a hereditary institution to define its future.

Please don't bother to pick apart my answers. It's boring for everyone else and this way, we have both had a chance to put out our lengthy arguments. And we can agree to disagree in a polite manner if we stop now.

They absolutely do not boost the economy - that has been completely disproven.

And they bring together people in tough times - while they sit in luxury while people use food banks. They do volunteer work too - so do I. I don't get paid millions of pounds for doing so.

Go have a look at how many official engagements William did last year.

There is nothing that justifies this families wealth particularly during a cost of living crisis.

20 years ago all my emails were about was what we were planning to wear for a night out. Definitely nothing I could be arrested for.

I think many of us have been socialised to feel sorry for privileged, abusive men who get their consequences. Feel it but recognise it for what it is and then let it go.

fair points, but it would certainly be lots less $$ from tourism etc overall , that is indisputable

being deluded and thinking women are attracted to you as an individual, not because of your title is one thing. They are all guilty of it, Harry is the only one who seem to have woken up on time.

No excuse for pretending to be unaware of what is legal, moral, acceptable.

It might be different if you are in a culture where certain things are normalised and you don't know about other realities, (look at female mutilation in some parts of the world) even if it's hard to believe it's not obvious when children are involved, but anyone in the Western World KNOWS without a shadow of a doubt what is acceptable.

Of course he knows what's "normal"

As for Prince William and his earthshot prize. He was well and truly roasted for that after it was made public how many flights he takes. We don't need a Royal Family and if one did need to exist it could be slimmed down and Royals living much less lavish lives - other countries manage it

Some of the excuses from the apologists are insane. On one thread someone said that no one had the perfect family.

I mean I've never claimed too, but certainly last time I checked no one in my immediate or even extended family had been accused of having sex with a trafficked woman and then paid them a multimillion pound settlement, had a long and continuing friendship with someone convinced of child sex abuse and trafficking and now been arrested for misconduct in a family office.

no but other people in the general public as part of criminal networks have prob done alot worse etc