To think my child is difficult

[Letsgoupstairs]

That sounds really horrible and negative but …

I don’t think he has additional needs, although I haven’t entirely ruled it out. But he is not an easy child at all and although I feel like a real failure for admitting this, I just don’t enjoy him.I don’t enjoy spending time with him or his company. And that’s horrible.

I wrote YABU because all kids are challenging, but I do know a kid like this.. he is extra challenging. But then again his mother is really soft on him. He would hit and bite her.
Does he only treat you like that or everyone the same? How does the father treat you? Is he respectful? You need to establish yourself as "leader of family pack". Are you happy being in authority?
I think it's well in your rights to be able to read a book for half an hour with a 5yr old. He needs to get used to you doing your own thing and NOT paying attention to him. Constant attention may be feeding a vicious cycle. It's not easy but feeding it doesn't make it easier for yourself. I found things much easier once I took a step back and reprioritised our lives to include my needs too. I started enjoying it. I didn't want DS to take me for granted and expect me to be at his beck and call. If he moaned, he moaned! If he hit, all hell would break loose!

Good luck to you. It isn't easy.

Sometimes you have to strip back communication. It isn't to do with intelligence. If your DS has a sensitive sensory system, and has less than brilliant impulse control, then his 'bucket' is already getting full before you even approach an activity. So setting expectations before you approach, then using key words only, helps with processing.

So with the trains, I would have said "It is busy. You get two minutes on the train, then off." Then, at 1:30 "30 seconds, Sam", "15 seconds", "3, 2, 1..off we get".

I get that he is likely to create a scene. He won't just say "Of course Mummy, I've had my turn and now it's someone else's turn!"

Honestly....I do think you need to see the GP and pursue assessment because 5 is too old to bite other kids.

I never thought I was ‘soft’ but then, consequences aren’t effective so who knows. You do get to the point where you’ve run out of ideas. What you’re ‘supposed’ to do in any given moment often is neither practical nor possible and even if you do everything right on Monday a different problem will arise on Tuesday.

He isn’t walking around hitting and biting but that’s the issue. I never really know when it’s going to happen or what the triggers are or how suitable somewhere might be.

Maybe if I only had him it would be different but I have another child who does, largely, do as she’s told, doesn’t eat like an Attenborough documentary about starved chimpanzees finding food, helps you tidy, tell her to stop doing something and generally does without the situation being escalated . It isn’t much fun.

In general schools don’t raise additional needs with parents unless it’s bleeding obvious and the child is hurting multiple people a week.

this is because the average parental reaction is “there is nothing wrong with my child how dare you try to label them” even if said child has autistic meltdowns on a daily basis and is throwing chairs.

the parents after this conversation then usually refuse to co-operate with the school for at least a few months on anything.

so additional needs are generally either brought up by the parent or very delicately hinted at to see if the parent is likely to be receptive.

however it is not obvious your child has additional needs. He sounds within normal range for 5 if quite boisterous. I had one like him.

I agree it’s too old to bite but I don’t think the GP is the answer. For one thing I am fairly sure you need the school to have noticed something untoward and plus even if they had, I don’t know that assessing children is all that helpful in terms of what it can deliver. He’s still going to be ds in other words. Anyway, hopefully the thread won’t become everyone insisting he’s special needs and why haven’t I got him assessed yet.

Yeah I didn't like 6 year old DS (yr1)

He has otherwise been lovely.

I'm sorry you're going through this OP, there have been periods where I've not really enjoyed being around my son and the guilt I felt on top of the irritation just compounded it all to make me feel even worse.

I have a friend who's 4yo is waiting on a ND assessment, but similarly to your situation his nursery had not noticed anything - perhaps masking. She described behaviours they were seeing at home and nursery were shocked, he wasn't displaying any of that with them, but they are getting huge, explosive meltdowns at home amongst other things.

My DS interrupts and rambles when we read together too, it does my head in, especially at bedtime. Have you tried getting him to read the story to you? Doesn't matter if he can't read, he can tell the story based on memory or what he can see. I know there are probably other moments where he rambles and interrupts too, I don't have anything more useful to offer I'm afraid!

Yiu can parent like he has additional needs and use the strategies. Does a countdown work?

It might be a bit of trial and error, especially ré hunger and thirst. My 5yo is awful when hungry and gets hungry quickly. Whoever picks him up from school gives him food before anything else.

Sounds like he is neurodiverse. I know you can't diagnose over the internet, but it might be worth exploring. My experience is that the gap with other children becomes more obvious in KS2 and he will not be picked up in school at 5 because he is still tiny and the behaviour is within the normal range, but when the demands get greater and the social situation more complex it might become more obvious. I know you say an adhd, or whatever diagnosis wouldn't help, but it would help you advocate for him as he gets older and help you to understand his needs as well as help his understanding of himself.

Nurseries frequently don't pick.up on additional needs, they put differences down to developmental rates. I would talk to school/GP about a referral to SALT. Could have a stammer, or other communication difficulty. He may be becoming frustrated by his communication issues.

When he starts a conversation like the one you transcribed, do you join in, or switch off? The thing that struck me was that he seemed to be searching for the word "soft", if you had supplied that, the conversation might have moved on.

A parenting class, if you can find an in-person, rather than online one, might help you to share experiences with other parents and develop strategies that you haven't tried yet. Sometimes you just need to find a way of breaking the cycle that you have both got stuck in.

Apologies if I've offended. My experience is 3 children with SN, all now in Special schools (2 for children of 'normal intelligence' but with educational challenges, one for children with learning disabilities). Only one, the one with learning disability, was flagged by preschool. The others were roundly invited l ignored in mainstream until 9 (finally taught by the SENCO and had broken down), and 15 (breakdown).

Schools generally do not flag SN unless there is a barn door problem. So either massive behavioural issues that place other children at risk, or so behind that they can't teach them with the rest of the class.

I'm wondering about ASD OP (sorry I know you didn't want the thread to go that way!) It's very unusual for a 5 year old still to be biting but what really stood out to me was you saying he had a very strong sense of justice and that is just so typical of ASD.

Do you think the 'rambling without saying anything' could be preseverative speech? I'd definitely bring it up at parents evening and see if they've noticed any communication issues. Don't expect them to be experts though because they just aren't. If a child is behaving ok and not falling too far behind then they probably won't be picked up. DS got to 10 before anyone even had a suspicion.

IME a diagnosis helps so much just in you understanding what the hell is going on.

Just want to encourage to you OP. My younger DS was more challenging than my other 4 put together. He was never physically rough with other children but he was frequently bad tempered, would roar in anger, wouldn't refuse to listen to the mildest request - "Step forward or you will stand on/break x/y/z" and he would seemingly deliberately step back.

School was fine - he loved his teachers and they loved him but they agreed that he liked to be in charge. As part of the school council in year 3 he refused to vote for a certain action until the teacher could "confirm that the prerequisites had been met!" Entertaining though his speech and confidence could be it was exhausting.

The next bit will sound like a horrible boast but honestly when he was five (or three or ten) I could have written what you have written. The behaviours were different but the defiance and the challenges were the same. But there is light at the end of the tunnel.

Then he hit puberty and suddenly changed. At 15 he practically took control of his own life, buying his own food and clothes, found two part time jobs and worked his socks off through his GCSE's and A levels. Got engaged at 18, went to University near his fiancee's home town and got married at 19.

He took more parenting than any of the others. Once he knew what he wanted in life he went for it with a maturity none of his older siblings had. He and his wife set goals for 3/5/10 years. He's 27 now, working his way up through the company he joined when he got his degree, they have a house, a child and a 10 yr plan. He keeps his eye on all his siblings and on us as his parents, phones home every week, comes home to help his dad in the garden or in the house "because he is younger and has more energy and dad deserves to take it easy".

So, as suspected, the thread is now insisting he has additional needs 😂 Let’s say for arguments sake he does (I’m not convinced) OK. But the problems are still there, aren’t they … it’s not like I can cure it.

It isn’t all the time but the rambling and interrupting is becoming a real headache inducer.

He can get support if he is assessed? If he is SEN and he needs support then denying him an assessment isn't really being a good parent IMO.

And I explained that badly; he doesn’t display the aggressive, surly behaviour all the time but the rambling and interrupting is pretty much constant and it makes me a bit irritable especially when I’m tense from previous poor behaviour. The loudness as well … it just puts me in a bad mood. Like the other day I came through the door and he roared really loudly at me and toddler dc; toddler burst into tears, I jumped out of my skin, it transpired he was only playing which I get but it just puts you on edge.

OK, then I’m a bad parent (which is my first instinct rather than being ND anyway so that doesn’t actually scratch my hide.) But let me talk you through what happens.

I go to my GP and I say that I am worried DS is ND. They will ask me if there were any concerns at school (no) how about nursery (no) what does dad think (no - and I’d be doing this against his beliefs and wishes, which would put tension on our marriage so that’s not great really)

So the GP would say if there’s no concerns from anyone else maybe it’s you and here’s a parenting course. (Of course they are not going to phrase it like that.)

And then the problems are still there anyway, no matter who he is, what he is.

But I can see the You Bad Parent; Why Haven’t You Gone To The GP Yet is starting.

Your DH sounds problematic.

SEND has nothing to do with ‘beliefs and wishes’ - either there is SEND or there isn’t, it’s not about beliefs. It sounds like you are alluding to some black and white thinking from your DH, which suggests ND on his part.

You clearly have alarm bells ringing about DS behaviour, so you have asked for advice. I would meet with school and voice your concerns about his C&I and emotional regulation/sensory issues at home. They will probably have noticed some indicators but perhaps not strongly enough to raise a concern (yet). You can then go to your GP and request Right to Choose for ASD/ADHD.

And then…either he is or isn’t ND. ADHD is usually assessed from around 7, but can be a useful diagnosis given that there is treatment available.

(Similar DS1, diagnosed AuDHD, medicated in school, flying academically, now 13 and an absolute dream most of the time).

Diagnosis or not you need ways to deal with the behaviour. Like yiu say, a diagnosis won't change him. What have you tried? Countdown warnings work really well here. As do removal for serious behaviour.

The screaming at you and the toddler I would let happen once and once only. The second time would be a serious consequence because that sort of screaming isn't acceptable. My now 9yo cared about screen time. His younger sibling less so, so we have a different consequence (toy removal usually, or physical removal because he's small enough to move!).

Yes I know that @Happytaytos but I’m not actually convinced one exists, hence my very despondent mood. Your post above shows how little attention you’ve paid to what I’m saying. Just going to completely ignore posts going on about SEND.

@Letsgoupstairs it all sounds very difficult and i agree he is too old to be biting as lots of kids do around toddler age. I also agree that without back up you will get nowhere and even with back up you can wait years to be assessed, is it possible for you to get a bit of time away from him to recharge and keep perspective? Also it might be worth contacting a neurodiverse support group and chatting through these issues, they may have strategies you could use and they may help regardless if your son is neurodiverse or not. They are used to dealing with lots of challenging behaviour!
Hang in there it will get easier!

I just ignore any posts with assessed it it, sorry. We’re not going down that route; it is not happening.

It is a bit of a lie that there is support available when you get an assessment. There isn't really unless your child is having massive issues at school. I really wouldn't feel guilty about that and I work in schools with ND children. Teachers respond to the individual child rather than the diagnosis. The diagnostic reports and the recommendations are actually very generic.

If you haven't already read them, there are some good books on parenting ND children. The strategies can work quite well for both NT and ND children. Or some of them do some of the time.

In regards to the 'rambling' op, it could be completely different for your child but these bullet points apply to my child diagnosed with ADHD

• difficulty following instructions (not refusing to, difficulty processing the instructions/forgetting what I've said)

• difficultly answering questions, he will repeat parts of the question back out loud before he can answer, to help him process

*getting distracted/drifting off mid sentence

*taking long pauses between words, struggling to get out what he actually means

*blurting out random things, interrupting sometimes. Struggling with turn taking in a conversation

It's not true that there is no help or support available, even if it's just in the form of information about his struggles so that teachers can be aware and break down instructions instead of giving loads at once and things like that. My child has a little whiteboard on his desk at school where things are written down for him for example.

Again, I could be completely wrong but you keep referring to this 'rambling' and as the mother of a child with quite severe ADHD I just recognise that something might be going on for your child.
Your attitude to a diagnosis not being helpful or becoming a self fulfilling prophecy is something I completely disagree with, but I'm giving you grace because maybe there is something going on and you're just at the start.

your son is harder for you to parent than your daughter, who is more compliant.

I understand that you find him challenging, your expectation of him though, is somewhat unreasonable @Letsgoupstairs

He is a wee, individual, developing, human who has unarticulated frustrations (possibly, hence biting) who may very well sense your own frustrations with him and he feels insecure?

A quiet, compliant, stress-free life with our children is a total oxymoron, just not gonna happen, is it?

For you @Letsgoupstairs, when you get a moment, really think through what is happening here, your darling boy is really no different to all others, he is just being himself and he is not your easy going daughter.

You have issues with him being himself, I'm sure you do not want him to be something he is not, ergo you and only you need to unpick, exactly how to move forward, for the two of you, which will enable you to cope without suppressing his individuality.

I offer this response, purely as a complete outsider which may be totally off the mark for your situation @Letsgoupstairs but may give you pause for thought.

Our children are such a joy but our responsibilities to them are huge and overwhelming sometimes.