To consider rehoming dog

[Celtic1hair]

Looking for advice as to be honest I cant really think straight. We got a dog 4 years ago, small cavapoo after years of wanting one, did not go into it blindly, Ive had dogs all my life and am well aware of all of the needs and sacrifices needed. Unfortunately he is super anxious. Had seperation anxiety to the point I was genuinely worried he would have a heart attack after being left for 10 minutes. This went on and on, ripping doors, paintwork whilst scratching for attention. We have had 5 dog trainers who cant seem to manage him, hes now become ultra wary of strangers and if anyone comes to the door the barking is relentless. I literally cant have workmen into the house because of him, even when put into the kitchen I have to sit and hold him on a lead the entire time. One dog trainer suggested getting a dog for company and nothing has changed at all, just added workload to the whole issue. I have three children, and the dog is amazing with them, but they cant have friends over because of his behaviour, constant barking and if they come close even growling. My husband cant bear it, so Im bearing the brunt of his frustration too and we have had some awful rows. I adore the little thing but I cant carry on like this for another 10 years.

Thank you so much, I had never heard of them before so I really appreciate the advice!

We tried all that first too. Absolute crap.

Listen, OP, if you’re looking for permission to rehome your dog, you don’t need it from us, but even if you did, you have it. Working with an anxious dog isn’t for the faint-hearted, and there is absolutely no shame in not being at the right place in your life to be able to do it. I couldn’t have done it alone, DP took the lead and if it had been down to me, I wouldn’t have coped.

But if you do want to keep your boy, it really is worth trying medication for a couple of months first. Those of us on this thread recommending it are doing so because we have seen it work.

Either way, I wish you both the best.

You said yourself “nowhere near as bad” as OPs dog so imagine what she is dealing with

OP has already said meds aren’t an option - she has a a busy house - this is a huge problem and a long road that probably lead to the same outcome - rehome - there is no point in taking a detour

It's not true to say this dog could not be re-homed.
That's fatalistic.
He could do very well in a quiet household with no children with someone retired ideally who gives him lots of attention.

Ive been through some difficult behaviours with my cocker spaniel and had to get a behaviourist involved. I don’t think you would be unreasonable to carefully rehome this dog at all - it’s obviously not working out, and (not criticising you!) the dog is obviously not in the right place at the moment.

I do think leaping straight to euthanasia would be unreasonable, and I don’t think it’s appropriate for anyone to be recommending that option based purely on a forum post. Such a course of action should only be done when ALL other avenues have been exhausted and after thorough assessment. To put a dog down without even giving it a chance in a new environment and with new people seems unbelievably harsh to me.

i see you have already contacted a doodle specialist place, can I signpost you also to Spaniel Aid, who may be a good resource and do work with cross breeds.

best of luck OP, I’m sorry you are going through this.

What socialusing did you do with him as a pup?

It sounds like you know his triggers. Have you tried setting up situations that you know will make him react eg being locked outside and not letting him get to the blindly worked up stage? By that I mean if he can't be outside alone at all, "accidentally" shut the door and then immediately open it as soon as he notices. So he might be tiny upset but not majorly upset. Lots of tiny upsets with immediate calm down helps them learn it's not worth the effort to get upset. Then you lengthen the time frame that the door is shut.

It takes a lot of work and wouldn't entirely fix the issue but could reduce his panic to something more manageable.

Oh, I wouldn’t bother. We did the Adaptil plug in and collar and every frigging “calming hemp chew” thing on the market. Nothing touched his anxiety. Only Reconcile did and even that had its limits.

We did licky mats, frozen kings, puzzles, pizzles, snuffle mats, you name it. Nothing REALLY tired his brain out enough to be truly calm.

God, it’s taking me back, OP. I can tell you’ve really tried and you shouldn’t feel guilty for wanting to re home/PTS/even having these thoughts. And please don’t think you “made him like this”. That was my huge fear too, but the vet and trainers all said that even if I had initially, after all that training and it still wasn’t “trained out” of him, then it was just the way he was wired.

it’s so tough because if he were a human, we could rationalise with him and say “if we try XYZ, in the future, you may feel better, so let’s try”, but of course he has no concept of the future only that the world is really big and really scary

Celtic - my friend thought one of the joys of her cavapoo would be going on holidays - he couldn’t go with them camping and I had him for the weekend - she said they could end up outside their tent while he guarded it and couldn’t risk it - so sad when you’ve been looking forward to family dog

what a weekend I had with him! It would switch in a moment - I learnt all about it

and like you she felt it wasn’t fair for her child to not be able to have play dates and for them not to live their life as intended - she did 3 years and I see you’ve done 4 - well
done you!!

the worst part was making the decision and following through but it was so worth it because no one was happy with how it was - plus you would basically need to be one to one with the dog all day to do the retraining required which isn’t possible for most people’s lives

YANBU - just get rid OP. This dog isn’t adding anything to your life and it sounds dangerous with the barking and growling. My friend got badly bitten by a family cockerpoo and a friend of mine as a nasty little shit of a cavapoo who bites anyone who comes into the house. Sounds like it is making your children’s lives harder as well if you can’t have people over.

Oh wow all the people suggesting crate training - did you not read the the OP? The dog has severe separation anxiety! That's clearly lead to other parts of his life.

Sorry OP if you've seen multiple qualified behaviourists then us randoms on Mumsnet are not going to be able to find practical solutions apart from those saying re home or PTS. Although I do question a behaviourist that recommended a second dog!!

If you do want some good practical advice online then there is an excellent Facebook group - Dog Training advice and support. There are two - one is run by behaviourists and one is a free for all - DO NOT join the free for all one. You'll know the right one - one of the admins is Sally Bradbury. They used to have a special separation anxiety group that you could join for a small charitable donation. Not sure whether that's still going. There are some guides they've written that you can read about separation anxiety before you post if you still need more help (and there is a vet behaviourist on there too).

We did lots, puppy classes, walking, literally taking him everywhere we could. Careful introduction to people on the street trying to teach him manners etc. We have tried getting the neighbours to knock so hes used to it, leaving for short periods of time etc. I'm home with him literally 5 days a week, and to be honest its not even the seperation anxiety at this point thats the issue, its the fact noone can enter the house. If it was just the barking it would be awful enough but I could deal with that if he would settle eventually, but last month my daughter (8) had a friend over and he was going beserk every time the child came into the room and growling. I cant lock him away he's ruined two doors scratching them so now we have baby gates to keep him in separate rooms but even the doorframes are getting damaged. I'm not suggesting rehoming him because of a damaged doorframe I promise, but every single thing is not working or so it feels like. My husband has completely given up so I do feel like the whole burden is on me here and Im drowning.

Dear @Celtic1hair - this thread is so sad. I have a cockapoo and I really feel for you.

It sounds like you love him so much and have tried so many remedies. if you arrive at the decision to PTS I genuinely feel this could be kinder. He won't know then the misery of separating from you all for a longer period. He's potentially wired to suffer from anxiety and if he can't have meds to treat it, then I would never pass him to someone else in the hope he might just get better. I would want to make sure he was pts at home feeling secure with me.

sending love xxx

what is 💔 the most is that this little dude cannot be aware that him being PTS is being debated and that his behaviour is driving it.

I agree with the poster that said a dog should at least be given another chance in a different home before losing his life.

It's such a russian roulette with dogs. You just never be 100% sure how your puppy is going to be wired.

I'm so sorry OP. This all sounds really really hard and I don't doubt your love for the little fella. Xxx

I do mean this very kindly, so please don't take offence. If your dog is snapping at people please bear in mind that you could be prosecuted if he causes injury. I have had to have a rescue dog PTS because he became aggressive. He would only do what he wanted, when he wanted. If he didn't want to, he became aggressive. He had clearly not been socialised or trained, and despite my efforts he couldn't change.
I decided to PTS when it was pointed out to me that if he injured anyone I could be prosecuted, the fine is unlimited and I could be imprisoned. I'm not trying to upset you or alarm you, but that was my thinking. I tried but he was beyond help.
Neither was I willing to try to rehome him, I felt I couldn't inflict his behavior on anyone else.
Perhaps this hasn't helped you, but I just wanted you to know that I do understand your predicament.

Thank you, its exactly this. Im so panicked that hes in this position because of something I have done, or that Im not good enough with the training and I think thats why Im so reluctant because I almost feel like its my burden to carry. And when its just us in the house honestly you couldnt ask for a more wonderful boy. Nut its impacting everything; like tonight they need to go out for a wee so have to go in the garden because even getting leads on the pair of them is a nightmare as he will not settle which sets the other one off. So they cant go out together for a quick walk and end up in the garden which is a complete mud pit and my kitchen resembles a swamp! When I was just managing him I would take him out 3-4 times a day in the street to do his business, Id happily carry on doing that as its so much cleaner but I cant. Now I feel guilty because obviously the problem doubled because of our decision to get another dog which makes it impossible, but we only did that so hed have company; training another puppy was absolutely something I didnt want to be doing!

Crate training is highly highly unlikely to be a solution. Most dogs with SA find being confined a heck of a lot worse than being free. I’d bet the OP’s dog is better off lead than when tethered, and for the same reasoning as the crate - he’s got the flight option for when he’s overwhelmed.

Another FB group you could try is Julie Naismith or Jodie Graham. I worked with the latter for my pooch. That said, it’s a HUGE time investment to do SA training. I could do it because I wasn’t working so the expected 5 days a week thing became my new job.

Thank you. Im writing this with tears in my eyes. I know PTS is such an awful choice, but I also know how much his heart will break being seperated from us not even understanding what hes done wrong, so I cant even feel like this is the kinder option. Im hoping for some advice from the doodle trust with input with this.

We have a dog like yours. If anyone comes to the door he goes berserk we can’t open the door to anyone and he hates anyone who comes within a few feet of his house. He also hates every vehicle he sees in the distance from the window. He’s fine out and about he is not bothered by people as they are not at his house I assume. But we manage it, yes we call him a nightmare but we all adore him he loves us and is perfect when it’s just us. We just keep him safe as well as anyone coming to our house. He couldn’t be around workmen so they are separate it’s not an issue and we have workmen in once in a blue moon. When we’re out we make sure no one touches him, he’s very cute so people do want to but I say don’t touch he’s not friendly - I am not interested in being polite to total strangers I keep my dog safe.

Maybe the difference is that my husband totally adores him and so we don’t clash over the dog it’s just the way he is. I think if my husband was constantly in my ear about the dog wanting to get rid of him then I can imagine the stress you’re feeling and now it’s at the point you need to lose the dog. Ours is quite old now so we’ve been navigating him for many years but it doesn’t feel like work tbh.

Totally agree about the vet, find a different one talk to others in your area about the issue and how the can help then change. There are meds you can give your dog at least to try.

Thank you, this has crossed my mind which is probably adding to my whole anxiety level and probably rubbing off on him, as well as diminishing my confidence.

I used to work in kennels and at a veterinary practice and you could usually hear a cav arriving before you saw it, they can be super anxious and quite yappy which is such a shame because they are usually pretty gentle with children as you have found out.
Im surprised a trainer recommended getting a second dog, that is always a very risky choice because you could end up with two dogs picking up the same behaviours.
I would try chemical castration to see if it does improve some behaviours if you did want to try and keep him however personally I think you would be better off contacting a specific breed rescue that also caters to the crossbreeds of those and look for a less stimulating home without young children. A retired person without all the comings and goings of your home would be a much better fit.
I sympathise a lot with you, one of our dogs we took in after she had moved home 3 times before and some of her behaviours weren’t obvious but I suspected she had more issues then was stated just because she was young to have moved around so much even taking into account the flakiness of people…
She hasn’t filled the spot quite as I thought she would that was vacant when we sadly lost our smallie dog. No sofa snuggles or bones can be left lying around as before as she resource guards and walks are not always relaxing affairs as she is reactive on the lead.
I joke she has no redeeming features but that we are stuck with her, which isn’t entirely true as she can be sweet and has personality.
I wouldn’t rehome her because I would worry that in the wrong hands she could make a mistake and properly bite because she’s so cute people don’t think she is capable of misbehaving, rescue centres are inundated with dogs that don’t have baggage as well as ones that do so I’ve always said in the event that we couldn’t keep her I would rather she was euthanised.
Keeping a pet is a responsibility but should also bring you joy, in your case the dog sounds miserable and so is everyone else.

The trouble is with ‘designer’ cross breeds people have bred from dogs that really shouldn’t have reproduced, there has been less emphasis on temperament of parents and more how much can be charged.
It is also worth contacting the breeder and seeing if they will take it back.
Responsible breeders usually have a clause in the contract that if for any reason the dog cannot be kept they should be informed and the dog returned, although I would definitely neuter him first if you go down that route.

Oh, we could be the same person.

My boy was just The Best when at home with just me or me and my husband. His favourite place in the world was my lap. We had some great great times together, just me and my shadow. But that was the problem…he could only ever be chill if near to me and I wasn’t moving about from room to room. Imagine being him and thinking “oooh yeah. This is BRILLIANT! Wait! What?! Where’s she going? Omg, I’m going to die. Ok, better follow her just in case. Wait, is she going to the door? The doorbell doesn’t ring any more because the humans turned it off because I lose it with my barking…but, but, what if someone’s there? Should I growl now? Should I wait? Omfg, what do I do?!”

Our boy had no resource guarding issues, fine with fireworks, would take a pill no problem (no cheese smuggling needed), great at commands when in safe spaces he trusted, learned tricks quickly, walked nicely on a lead assuming no other dogs in sight, fine in the car, sweet as anything when at home with the family etc etc and it was still damn tough.

If it helps, when we had the vet over to PTS (our boy was so anxious that he once peed on me as I carried him into the vet’s reception…), I asked similar re could I have done more? Was I a crap trainer? And he said that he had behaviourist friends who only did a few hours a week of work with their animals. Also, you’ve had dogs before… I’d have dogs before, some of which were the same breed, and so no, it’s not like you’re a first time dog owner and just couldn’t be arsed. Your boy is just wired differently and you can’t change his brain infrastructure. It’s not your fault. I promise you, it’s not your fault. You’re not a bad person. You’re not a bad pet owner. You’re clearly someone who has tried so hard and loves their pet.

Thank you for this, yes its my husband being in my ear that is really pushing me over the edge, but to be fair I do feel if the roles were reversed maybe I would expect some understanding, but then its hard to know if he's just being a knob! And if my children were older maybe Id feel less stress about it, but Im reluctant to let them have friends over because of him and thats so unfair.

I used to work for a large UK breed charity and from what you've said he sounds almost impossible to rehome - if 5 (regulated behaviourists?) can't resolve it (and you are without doubt taking and rehearsing their advice), then i feel it would be kinder to put to sleep. Why people with young children think it's a good idea to get a dog, makes me despair.

Thank you, this is exactly it! Hes 4 and when he eventually settles when my husband comes home he can still pee with the excitement/feeling so overwhelmed. Now dont get me wrong, every dog will have accidents but in fairness to him hes just come in from work after picking up our 3 DC and is having to immediately disinfect the floor!

Sorry, I’m totally hijacking your thread, but happy to DM if you’d like, it’s just that having been in a similar situation, the line “he’s done wrong” was part of my process too. However, he’s done nothing wrong and you know that. It’s because done nothing wrong that makes it so tough. I was at a point of kind of wanting my dog to bite someone so I had a “legitimate” reason to rehome or PTS rather than this neurological issue that you can’t see.

He’s done nothing wrong and neither have you. Like Jessica Rabbit, he’s just drawn this way