To consider rehoming dog

[Celtic1hair]

Looking for advice as to be honest I cant really think straight. We got a dog 4 years ago, small cavapoo after years of wanting one, did not go into it blindly, Ive had dogs all my life and am well aware of all of the needs and sacrifices needed. Unfortunately he is super anxious. Had seperation anxiety to the point I was genuinely worried he would have a heart attack after being left for 10 minutes. This went on and on, ripping doors, paintwork whilst scratching for attention. We have had 5 dog trainers who cant seem to manage him, hes now become ultra wary of strangers and if anyone comes to the door the barking is relentless. I literally cant have workmen into the house because of him, even when put into the kitchen I have to sit and hold him on a lead the entire time. One dog trainer suggested getting a dog for company and nothing has changed at all, just added workload to the whole issue. I have three children, and the dog is amazing with them, but they cant have friends over because of his behaviour, constant barking and if they come close even growling. My husband cant bear it, so Im bearing the brunt of his frustration too and we have had some awful rows. I adore the little thing but I cant carry on like this for another 10 years.

You can’t OP. And that poster is just making a bigger and bigger tit of herself with every post.
My professional opinion is you should ignore her for the absolute moron that she is. Spaniel Aid are a very well regarded charity (I think that’s who you said you had calling) and will be well placed to advise and help

I'm not baiting.
I'm angry that you are proposing killing a nervous anxious dog that is living in a home that is not suited to the dog's temperament.

You came on to get permission to put him down.
That was clear from your first post.

I’m angry you’re proposing to keep a dog alive that is MISERABLE and he can’t even rationalise how he feels. I’m angry you’re proposing extending its stress despite the OP having tried so many avenues. I’m angry you’re BAITING an OP who is clearly up against a shit time in life.

If only you had the compassion for people as you do for a dog whose full situation you don’t even know.

ETA: the lesson she’s teaching her kids? That they and their lives are more important than their pet’s. That they matter. That they can have friends over. Yep, I think that’s pretty good parenting actually.

@MusicWasMyFirstLove I'm angry that you aren't thinking of the harm that a dog that is already growling and snapping at people might do. A child could be seriously harmed or killed by a dog that suddenly loses it. It's why I had my dog PTS. I could NOT , repeat NOT have lived with myself if he had done that.

Amen, @loislovesstewie.

Not to mention: how could anyone live with themselves knowing their canine charge was just stressed and miserable and there was nothing, short of a miracle or unicorn family, that could help it. It’s also about the dog’s welfare too, especially if they’re a danger to themselves.

I think you're stretching a bit here; this dog has zero bite history, and to get to the age of 4 years old having never bitten anyone is actually a fairly good indicator that they have good bite inhibition and are a fairly low risk in this respect.

Yes nothing is certain, but high risk dogs usually have a fairly established bite history at this age - the Ian Dunbar dog bite scale is used to assess this.

I doubt many behaviourists or vets would immediately jump to PTS in this situation, especially when a very standard medicine for dogs in this situation, fluoxetine, has not been trialled yet.

Rehoming sounds appropriate, there are still some steps before PTS.

My dog was 4.. He tried to bite. I assume either: I'm telling lies or he's unusual.

A dogs reactions are far, far faster than a human's - when a dog intends to bite, it does. You can see 'air bites' which are deliberately pulled as display but are not intended to make contact or injure.

So for example a dog with 1 bite history at level 3 of the Ian Dunbar dog bite scale is likely to be far more of a risk than a dog who has had 20 x level 1 displays (eg air snapping ) and not gone beyond that, because they are reliably doing that each time, demonstrating their bite inhibition, and have not advanced up the scale.)

But everyone makes their own decisions about how they want to proceed, ideally in consultation with a good behaviourist and vet, and I fully agree that the OP is not in a position to continue living with this dog.

What breed of dog did you have - a cavapoo or a pitbull?

Anyone with small children should think carefully before getting a dog and what type of temperament the animal has. That's the responsibility of the adult and not the fault of the dog in 99.9% of cases.

Fyi, OP stated that the dog has never bitten anyone in 4 years.
It is a small frightened and nervous dog that needs constant companionship which it is not getting and a quiet environment which is not possible in a house with 3 children. Getting a second dog only exacerbated the situation.

Re-homing is the best solution for the dog.

@suggestionsplease1 Well said. A dog that growls and air snaps is a dog communicating. Communicating that they’re not happy, yes. But they are restraining themselves from biting and expressing themselves just as they should and demonstrating solid bite inhibition.

I remember being very concerned when my dog growled and air snapped at our vet when he was expressing her anal glands. He saw I was worried and said that he is far more concerned when a dog DOESN’T growl and air snap when he’s doing something unpleasant to them, because those are the dogs that bite out of nowhere.

I totally agree that OP’s home is not suitable for this dog, and she absolutely should rehome him if — for WHATEVER reason — she’s not able to make things work for him. And that is also completely understandable, because her children have to come first, and working with an anxious dog is tough going! I certainly couldn’t have done it alone. But anyone arguing this dog should be PTS because it’s “aggressive” is showing a fundamental misunderstanding of dog behaviour. Particularly when nobody has tried a) medication and b) reducing the dog’s triggers.

There is absolutely no reason for this poor dog to be killed.
None.

Anyone suggesting that should never own a dog.

Dogs are not complicated animals - they are very predictable and if they are permanently stressed out it means the environment is not suitable.

I find it incredible it's taken so long for OP to work that out and get to the point where she is contemplating having him put down.
I'm not sure any vet would actually do this.
They'd probably re-home it rather than kill it.

In relation to the risk of bites - here's a useful video - when dogs bite, it's almost always because the adults in charge do not respect the dog's boundaries or have not taught their children to respect the dog's boundaries:

I foster abused dogs and I’ve never seen anything like the OPs experience. My last foster lost a leg from necrosis after being tied up, yet I’m not dismissing the OP.
Dogs are very resilient animals but this sound like a mental health issue. I think rehoming by professionals asap is best for everyone. This is too much for the OP

I’d try to find an elderly person who is home a lot and wants a total lap dog to spend 24/7 with. If not, I’d look at PTS

Oh please! Do give over. I suspect that you would think the 2 XL bullies that mauled an elderly lady to death were misunderstood too!
Edited to add, the vet was 100% in agreement with me having my aggressive dog PTS. She actually advised NOT to attempt rehoming as she felt he was beyond that. As she said, ' We don't know what has happened before you got him, so don't know why he's got like this'.

Thank you for your reply. Is really difficult because he loves the house environment with us 5 in it.... As. Long as that's it! The attempted bite situation is so difficult to explain, I know what you mean about the air bite, he does that at the vets, but the only reason he didn't make contact with the child is because there was a baby gate, I was literally standing their with my hand on his collar because I was trying to stroke him to calm him whilst making an introduction, and thst the child pulled her hand away. But it happped in the blink of any eye, literally from being a nuisance barking to switching. I really hope its just warnings but I can't keep him and others safe if I take a risk.

Hi everyone, just wanted to do a quick update. I spoke to the lovely lady from the spaniel trust yesterday, she was really lovely and totally judgement free which was a relief. She's unsure if they are able to support but will speak to others before giving me an answer so I know what to expect early. My husband and I had a long talk last night, the first time properly about the whole situation without it being a blame game and just become a competition to who's more stressed. I think a lot of the issues stem from him thinking I'd never consider rehoming because I love the dog so much and him thinking how can he live like this for another 10 years. The more we talked the more the impact of the dog became obvious and he can't stay. I'm desperate that a rehoming charity can help us because if not pts will have to be the option. I wholeheartedly know he could not cope in a kennel and it would be cruel, so if I have to live with that guilt to protect him I will. It's the impact not only on the family but the second dog. Sounds trivial but we used to take the first dog out numerous times a day to do his business, so he needed his paws wiped quickly, 10 minutes in the kitchen to be fully dried then back round the house as part of the family. Because eldest dog goes absolutely bananas whenever we try and take the youngest dog out it becomes a huge performance and he has to go into the garden instead... Which is like a swamp seeing as its rained non stop for months, and then they take hours to dry/get clean so end up stuck in the kitchen for ages. So he isn't having a proper and fair chance either. And then the kitchen looks like a swamp and I'm genuinely doing a tiktok deep clean twice a day just to keep it to some level of cleanliness. Every single thing on its own would be manageable but my entire life is revolving around this now. I feel like I've failed but I knew the level of work involved with a dog and the level of input he needs because hes wired differently is not something we can manage.

You’ve done all you can OP. Please try and go easy on yourself now. The fact that you care so deeply shows what a loving owner you are and that you just want the best for him, whatever path that may take.

I am a bit dubious about him being rehomed tbh and I’m sure the breed rescue are too but at least you’ve had the conversation.

But if you do decide to PTS then I hope you can rationalise it and not blame yourself.

Take care

He doesn't need to be killed. Someone will rehome him, but people need to know he needs rehoming. Lots of public posts on FB shared around.

Advertising a dog on Facebook or looking on Facebook to find an adopter is extremely foolish. The dog needs to be assessed by a responsible, trained person, a charity so that any decision made is in the dog's best interests. Otherwise the dog could become more anxious and respond by biting not just threatening to bite. The RSPCA don't take aggressive dogs, many rescues don't. Just for info. If they don't why would a random person on Facebook be able to cope.

You haven’t failed. I’ve read your posts and it’s obvious you really have tried and tried to help this dog so that it can be part of your home and family but nothing is working because of its temperament. This dog is no longer simply a pet. It is an animal with demands / needs that you can’t possibly meet and your marriage and family life is suffering as a result. The dog is dominating everything, at the expense of your well-being. When dog behaviourists are at a loss, I think it’s safe to say you’ve done your best and that the dog simply can’t integrate into your home set up. Please don’t beat yourself up or call yourself a failure. You did your best.

I meant posts shared by a charity/rescue. There are lots of them to try, some do accept dogs like this to give them a chance. But even rehoming to someone they know in some way or friend of a friend is better than ending the dog's life. You never know who knows who or who could possibly help or be willing to try.

A charity =fine. A friend or friend of a friend isn't fine. They aren't vetted, would you be happy to home an anxious dog with another random person and then find it had injured someone. Because I would not.

Could you try a new vet practice that provides medication and let him stay with your Mum whilst trialling it. Just to alleviate your concerns over him reacting to the kids wie on medication. You could try this while still searching for a rescue.

It would give the dog the best chance moving forward. Surely a local.sm post could find recommendations of such vets.

A safe space at your Mum's. An open covered crate.

I really can't grasp why you keep dismissing the medication trial.

Muddy floors are a part of dog owning.

Introducing a visitor child through a gate when the dog has made it clear it is wary of visitors is never a good idea.

A dog that is good with it's family but nervous of guests is not a dog that needs to be killed. Especially when meds haven't even been tried.

You have made you mind up to rehome, please at least work on giving the poor dog the best possible chance in that move.

Are you going to rehome the other dog too as I assume that makes muddy paw prints too?

Also backing previous posters, a growl doesn't mean anything bite risk so please stop labelling your dog as that. Any rescues will do tests on actual bite risks so explain that the dig growls, which is a form of communication.

I haven't read the full thread so sorry if this has been suggested, but I have a similar dog, she's a much bigger and stronger breed than a cavapoo and she's batshit

What we did was get all visitors to ignore her noise and bad behaviour and act like she didn't exist. I'd also get them to drop treats or throw them a distance away and let her find them. There'd be no fuss or eye contact or any recognition that she'd found the treats. Eventually she realised visitors weren't (too much of) a threat and came with food. She'd always be wary but she'd not display the OTT stressful fear reaction.

I also trained her to recognise that a certain noise meant she'd get a high value treat, so for example, if I knew a visitor was just about to enter the house I'd make the noise and she'd come over to get a treat and be distracted so she didnt react as strongly to the visitor, which meant less or no barking, lunging, growling etc.

We've had her 11 years and it gets easier over time if you're consistent and learn the triggers and learn how to preemp the reactions so you can learn how to manage them.