How are Grammar schools so much better than comprehensives if they get the same funding?

[Karma1387]

Me and my partner are in a situation where we are looking to relocate in order to move to a Grammar school area. This is going to involve us both having to find new jobs and coordinate a house move at the same time.

Some of my family disagree with our decision to move for the sake of grammar school and don't see how they can be better than a normal comprehensive school.

I am hoping some people on here will have some knowledge on how grammar schools achieve so much better than comprehensives?

Also anyone with experience with grammar schools they could share? From what I have read the class sizes aren't much different to comprehensives and they get the same funding. Is it literally just a case of because they do the 11+ they tend to only take on the more academically inclined kids. Does this translate to less bad behaviour etc compared to comprehensive schools?

The move is going to be stressful with us both trying to find new jobs plus moving further away from both our families I want it to be worth it! Our local comprehensive is awful for results and we want to give the kids the best opportunities.

Personally I would rather homeschool and fully keep them out of the school system but my partner is very against this and is determined we need to move to a grammar school area so any advise to aid our discussion would be amazing!

Are we being unreasonable to relocate for the possibility of grammar school?

To be fair to the OP, who certainly does have some extreme views about the future lives of her children, I have had parents ask me about school 11+ success rates when coming for a Reception day open morning, so she isn’t alone in planning ahead( and this was at a bog standard state primary)

I remember this too, no I wasn’t the one asking and in some cases the schools even volunteered the information. They all said they had a few, those with the higher ( still not very high) numbers going on to grammar school tended to be the ones in more affluent areas. Whichever school DC went to, by juniors everyone had worked out school were taking the credit but the kids going to grammar school also had tutors ( some from year 2!)

Yours is such a common dilemma - you want a great school but you can't afford a house in a great school catchment area. That's life for so many people.

I reckon your best bet is to move to a place with a good comprehensive. It will probably be a nice place to live too. Speak to a mortgage adviser about how you can make this happen.

Your plan to move to an area where you don't know anyone, which has poor employment prospects, and to then rely on your children getting into grammar school is way too risky imo.

Not many people do have super-rich grandparents but it was worth a try!

It sounds as though you have agreed the next step- and it's a sensible one. Primary schools are wonderful and inspiring places, creative, and full of energy. I do hope your visits to some in your area will help you clarify what would work for your son and the he will enjoy seeing big children having fun in their classroom. As he goes to nursery, you already have a good start. Good luck : - )

Because they are selective! Mine go independent and there are lots of SEN kids here. Most of these children just wouldn't get into grammar schools. Kids get tutored for years to go grammar, you need to be super bright for London grammars. Much less disruption too as most have taken an entrance exam to go there.

@Karma1387
Your initial query was on grammar schools then this post has spiralled into so many other things - homeschooling, safe guarding, lifts with other parents.

It's very clear that you have anxiety and that you have sought help for this in the past plus done other activities that helped e.g. horse riding.

You obviously want to keep your DC safe but have extreme ways / views of going about it. Not giving your DC 'normal' childhood experiences based on irrational fear will not help your DC in the future e.g. not letting your DC have lifts with school mates to parties even if they are in KS2.

It seems to me that by not working or having other things going on in your life, all your focus & anxiety is on your DC which in turn is making you obsessed in not letting your DC have normal experiences.

You need to prioritise what's most important to you.

From what you have shared here are your facts:
You live in the fens and the nearest schools to you are substandard
You are not in catchment for any good schools
Your DP earns £50k and has family in Essex and went to a good school
You had a career but decided that raising your DC was more important

To be blunt, moving to Essex in catchment of a good school will be unlikely unless you move to a small 2 bed flat on a household income of £50k.
If you want to move to a good school area and you remain as a SAHP, you will probably have to go further north.

You say you hate your area. My advice would be to decide where you would like to live and whether you can afford it with just DP working. If you can't, but it's really important that you move there, your DP either needs to earn more or you seek better paid employment.
Deciding on an area to move to OR deciding not to move will help guide your next steps.

There are various apps you can look at e.g. locrate, Good schools guide, The times schools guide etc.

I mean we could technically afford a 3 bed house on our household income from a mortgage point of view but that would be tight and personally don't think moving to Essex and the extra cost is worth the financial stress for a very small shot at a good Grammar school although I appreciate my partner would like to move back down there.

But thank you for your replies. We have lots to think about and consider especially as I can't go back to a career for 4-5 years minimum so that affects our decision a lot.

All the responses on here have been very helpful.

Tbf I remember fractions when DD was year 3 during Covid.

Talking about halves and quarters started before then but it’s hardly very hardcore!

@Karma1387 Why Essex? Far more grammars in Bucks. Not sure what your budget is but mid Bucks isn’t hugely expensive but has outstanding schools.

I went to a grammar school on Essex/ London border and wouldn’t recommend that to anyone. It was awful. Gets good results because pupils are clever obviously but none of the extra curricular enrichment that my daughter’s comp has. I’d rather she gets a good education AND is a well rounded young adult who gets to explore her interests and passions.

Surprising. I found my child's grammar in this very area had numerous extra curriculars and ways for children to further themselves. A lot more exposure to the world etc.

You know times have changed since you went to school?

… because grammar schools get the kids that are either most intelligent or have invested parents who paid loads for their kid to be tutored through the 11+ and who emphasise education to their kids. This = better grades and better behaviour and parents willing to pay voluntary donations. And that means the money they do get can be put to different use (less behaviour interventions, less pastoral need, less SEN in most cases).

yes clearly. I have friend’s with children there now and also looked around it for my older child

I have to say my experience with my son's school was the complete opposite sooo much enrichment activity and sport. So much more than friends with DCs in comprehensive schools.

Agree. My DC’s superselective grammar has over 150 clubs throughout the week - be it sport, music, art, subject specific… it’s endless. Run by teachers and students. My DC’s engineering club supervisor ran it almost every lunch and after school leading up to the competition. They do really well in regional school sports matches too. Just incredible

How is all this funded? Do parents have to pay a "voluntary" contribution?

PTA work really hard and around half of the students are from prep schools so I guess we are very lucky. Students also raise money via “house” system and compete which house raises the most for school or charities of their choice.

School reports are detailed and excellent, and parents are regularly kept up to date with their DC’s progress outside of reports via the school app. I really can’t fault the school.

I think teachers also have a vocation in these places. DS had a mock oxbridge interview at 8pm on a Sunday night- that's dedication. All the teachers were there for sports fixtures on Saturdays and sport's days. I think they were just very committed.