How are Grammar schools so much better than comprehensives if they get the same funding?

[Karma1387]

Me and my partner are in a situation where we are looking to relocate in order to move to a Grammar school area. This is going to involve us both having to find new jobs and coordinate a house move at the same time.

Some of my family disagree with our decision to move for the sake of grammar school and don't see how they can be better than a normal comprehensive school.

I am hoping some people on here will have some knowledge on how grammar schools achieve so much better than comprehensives?

Also anyone with experience with grammar schools they could share? From what I have read the class sizes aren't much different to comprehensives and they get the same funding. Is it literally just a case of because they do the 11+ they tend to only take on the more academically inclined kids. Does this translate to less bad behaviour etc compared to comprehensive schools?

The move is going to be stressful with us both trying to find new jobs plus moving further away from both our families I want it to be worth it! Our local comprehensive is awful for results and we want to give the kids the best opportunities.

Personally I would rather homeschool and fully keep them out of the school system but my partner is very against this and is determined we need to move to a grammar school area so any advise to aid our discussion would be amazing!

Are we being unreasonable to relocate for the possibility of grammar school?

What job does your DP have?
Is he on a decent wage to afford a house in a catchment for a decent school?

Life is all about choices.
I didn't give up work when I had DC. Some of my friends did. That's fine.
My DH and I live in an area with very good schools. We wouldn't be able to afford it on 1 wage. That's a choice we made as a family.

If you are serious about wanting a house in the south east in a catchment for a very good school, you will need a decent household income.

Crikey. I was at a children's art session today with my child. One of the children had been asked to hand back everyone's paintings but was struggling to get the children to listen. He was getting annoyed so I asked him if he wanted some help.
It never occurred to me that any of the adults in the room might think I'd spoken to him for nefarious reasons.

Being a vexatious complainant to your child's school is going to be much more of a problem for the complainant than it was. New guidelines are about to be set out in a white paper, prompted by the enormous amounts of time schools are spending dealing with them.

Hours spent dealing with parental complaints takes away from the already demanding jobs teachers and heads do - teaching, data inputting, marking books and homework, creating wall displays, parents' evenings, report writing, safeguarding, lesson planning (teachers); budgeting, dealing with parents, fundraising, liaison with other schools, overseeing the school office function, building relationships with the governing body, liaison with the academy/local authority heads); not to mention dealing with the fallout from the cost of living crisis and depletion of public services since 2010 - clothing children, feeding children, safeguarding, putting together Education, Health and Care Plans.

Schools are communities of children and adults. They are not providers of a bespoke service to individual parents for their child.

It's not a done deal that school will hate you if you send you children to school. Hate is too strong a word. If you try to manage every last detail of your children's school life and thereby become a vexatious complainant, the new processes will enable the school to deal with you so that you are nolonger a nuisance. If you do the sensible and right thing and respect the school as an important and trusted partner in your children's education, you will be fine and your children likely flourish.

How is this safe or sensible for your child? What happens if you are taken ill, get mugged or have a car accident and you are the only person authorised to pick up?

A PP refers to having read a previous thread of yours. I read it too. It has the same features: sky-high levels of anxiety, suggestions of a discordant relationship with your partner, lots of good advice given, OP's absolute resistance to taking any of it. If OP were my neighbour, I would be feeling very concerned about the near isolation of the child(ren) and the probable lack of social skills, to such an extent that I would be considering contacting social services or a children's charity to check that everything was OK and whether the parents needed any support. Schools are also attuned to how a child presents at school.

Oh @Karma1387 pease read these recent posts from many very helpful MNers and consider your reactions.

It is totally normal for an adult to chat to a child they know without having the permission of the child's parent. If this happens in a school setting (examples noted by PPs; others I can think of include – child is among a group staffing a stall at the school fair; child is at a book fair after school; parent is in school for nativity/assembly/coffee morning/parents-come-to-school-lunch event – for some of these things that schools organise (!), not all parents will be there. I couldn't aways get to school things bc I worked FT; I did not feel the need to give the school permission to allow DS1 to talk to his friend's mum who was there.

DS2 showed the possible parents round his junior school when he was in year 6. No one asked me for permission. I have no idea who these parents were. It was totally fine.

Seriously, what do you honestly think the safeguarding issue is here? Please have a think and try to see how all of that is totally fine. And no, I never spent any time telling my DC not to talk to strangers. There are many strangers (ie ppl they don’t know personally) whom it is fine for them to talk to.

Wrt DC being let out of school, it does vary. My DC in infant school had to be released by the teacher when they had seen the person who was picking them up. But in juniors (so year 3 onwards) they were allowed out and came to find their parent – or (shock) walked themselves home. It's all steps to independence.

I appreciate that you want to do the best by your DC. Many DC really like school and don't feel that they are stuck there. I urge you to go and look round some local schools and get a feel for them. A good way is to see if they have a spring or summer fair you can attend.

How do you make friends?

Or perhaps you lead a very isolated life.

If it is only me or my partner around to do pick up then that is all who would be on the list. I am sure lots of people don't have emergency contacts.

I just wanted the reassurance that nobody not on the list could could collect unless the school where explicitly told otherwise with instructions to check ID or a passcode.

Well considering my sons nursery comment on what an outgoing and hilarious little boy he is on his days there I don't think anyone has any concerns regarding his social skills. He cuddles the other children, they say his is one of their best eaters (including manners) in the toddler room considering he is the youngest.

I also highly doubt any of my neighbours pay any attention to what we do. But I have 0 worries if social services popped over. I may not go out a lot to shops etc but my son goes to nurseey 3 days a week where he is thriving and we see my dad almost every week so I doubt very much SS would be concerned for him.

We will be going to look at some and see if there are any we like and think might suit us and if we want to move there.

I don't make friends so don't have that issue.

He is on a bit over 50k so technically we could probably get a mortgage in certain parts of the south east with my part time wage on top. Not sure about actually affording the payment month-month with other outgoings so that may not be an option.

But thank you for all your replies they have given us a possible area to lool at.

What about parents of other children? What will you do when your child makes friends and wants to socialise with them outside of school?

Who do you think will be trying to collect your child?

It is a really really really good idea to have friends when you have school age (particularly primary school age) children, particularly if you are not living near lots of extended family (which it sounds like you aren't). What will you do when your children want to do 2 different things in two different places? When one of them is too ill to get up, but the other still needs to go to school. When you are too ill to take them to school? Trying to do it all with just yourself and your partner is really really hard. Making friends (no one is saying you have to be best friends but at the social chit chat in the playground level) with other school parents is a necessary social skill.

Haven't worked that one out yet. I assume I will have to cope with some basic chit chat but my kids friends doesn't mean their parents will be my friends. We just have to be civil.

How do you even know your children are clever enough to pass the 11+? Grammar schools are selective, comps are not. It really is as simple as that.

As I said before I just wanted reassurance after some posters said from 7 it was more of a relaxed pick up situation that if it is only me and my partner down as approved collectors that this would be followed. Even if another family member arrived who our kids was wanting to go with.

Nothing wrong with that in my opinion.

What’s wrong with having friends?
They can be an absolute gift especially when you have young children.

Unless I had a friend I had known for years and was very close with there is no way I would be trusting them with taking my kids anywhere especially when young.

I am aware I will have to make social niceties if my son makes friends but that doesn't mean I would be friends with the parents.

There is nothing 'wrong' with having friends.

Actually, I think there is quite a lot wrong with your opinions. I think you are living a very isolated life and seem to want that for your children too.

You seem fixated on someone other than you collecting your child. Schools have very robust safeguarding policies which are checked and reviewed by staff, governors and ofsted.
What do you think is happening at school pick ups? If there was a widespread issue with children being collected by random people don’t you think we’d know about it? It would be all over the news!

Schools don’t ask for ID at pick up or set passwords

What do you mean you 'dont go to the shops much'?

This is all very strange and a life I'm very glad I don't live.

You obviously think there is as you’re unwilling to even consider making them, even when it might benefit your children.

Like I say, you don't have to be best friends - just know them well enough to to be happy with them giving your child a lift to a party or to pick them up from school in the inevitable cases where you can't do it all yourself.

If you won't trust your child to go with someone other than you or your partner and you don't want to talk to other people beyond social niceties, you are going to struggle in the future.

Please peruse MN to see the threads where people are wondering how on earth they cope with 2 children when they are ill/partner is working/the child is ill/the car has conked out where they don't have any extended family members who can help, and they don't know anyone nearby. Spoiler - it's very tough for them. And, often, for their relationship with the child's father.