How are Grammar schools so much better than comprehensives if they get the same funding?

[Karma1387]

Me and my partner are in a situation where we are looking to relocate in order to move to a Grammar school area. This is going to involve us both having to find new jobs and coordinate a house move at the same time.

Some of my family disagree with our decision to move for the sake of grammar school and don't see how they can be better than a normal comprehensive school.

I am hoping some people on here will have some knowledge on how grammar schools achieve so much better than comprehensives?

Also anyone with experience with grammar schools they could share? From what I have read the class sizes aren't much different to comprehensives and they get the same funding. Is it literally just a case of because they do the 11+ they tend to only take on the more academically inclined kids. Does this translate to less bad behaviour etc compared to comprehensive schools?

The move is going to be stressful with us both trying to find new jobs plus moving further away from both our families I want it to be worth it! Our local comprehensive is awful for results and we want to give the kids the best opportunities.

Personally I would rather homeschool and fully keep them out of the school system but my partner is very against this and is determined we need to move to a grammar school area so any advise to aid our discussion would be amazing!

Are we being unreasonable to relocate for the possibility of grammar school?

I stand by I won't sacrifice safety for convenience.

No I would not let a parent I don't know take my child to a cafe without me or to a club. You wouldn't allow a random neighbour or someone you saw in a shop everyday drive your child somewhere would you? What is the difference between that and a parent you don't know.

Yes my views may be a tad extreme but I am really shocked so many people think its totally fine to just let young children go with random parents you don't know.

I'm not sure I can imagine my 10 year old just wondering around on their own! But I will acknowledge I don't have a 10 year old so I have no idea if my stance on that would change as they got older.

But certainky anything under 7/8 they wouldn't being going places with people we don't know.

OP - my parents thought it important to send me to the "best school" they could find. My mother was somewhat like you - she didn't believe in making friends or that social interactions were important.

The result is that I have absolutely stellar academic qualifications, but it took me years to build up self esteem and self confidence and ability to interact with others. And, my observation is that academic qualifications can only get you so far. The people getting the top jobs are ones that are very qualified (or sometimes incredibly hard working) but are also good at getting on with people and that have the confidence to push themselves forward.

It is much easier to get academic qualifications later than it is to build up social skills, if you are starting from a basis of being trustful of those around you.

But your extreme anxiety around safety will prevent him from having a normal childhood.
Nursery is a bubble. It’s highly controlled and you don’t really get chance to meet parents. The kids haven’t developed proper friendships so play dates aren’t really a thing.
Any activities they do at this age will require a parent to be present.

Once they get to primary school that all changes. They become independent people who are separate from you.
They make friends and want to do things with them
outside of school. Clubs and activities become ‘drop off’ rather than stay and watch. Life becomes hectic and friendships with other parents can really help.

They absolutely will be - but only if you have equipped them with the skills to be independent. If you make them scared of the world then they won’t.

You have no desire to get to know people so you’re never going to let them out of your sight are you?

I will let them out of my sight when I think they are old enough and ready. Anything under 7 is not old enough with people I don't know well.

But the scenario I posted isn’t about you, it’s about your child’s life, relationships, social development. If he’s never allowed to go with his friends and their families he is going to be socially disadvantaged, and that will have a massive impact on his life.

A schoolfriend’s parent isn’t the same as a random person in the street. A neighbour isn’t a random person either. You have information about those people- their names, where they live. You will have spoken with them and have some idea about their presentation.

I won’t keep reiterating the same points but I would suggest you do some research into child development and reconsider your rather unusual views on your kids’ friendships and independence. Your current ideas and plans will do them a massive disservice in their lives.

I don't know a single neighbours name. Besides a occasional brief hello thats it.

I can read as many books as I like. It isn't going to change my views on keeping my kids safe. My 5-6 year old would not be going anywhere with someone I didn't know.

But I appreciate the input.

You are framing your behaviour as keeping your children safe but all I see is you letting your anxiety and desire to be isolated dictate your parenting style.

All of this is about you with little regard to what your children might want or need. It’s incredibly selfish. You could change this but you won’t.

I read your other thread and I think it gives a lot of context to how you feel about interactions with others. My husband's autistic (he only realised when our DD was diagnosed) and also finds people draining, and needs a lot of time alone to recharge. He does have friendships, generally based around stuff with fairly minimal social interaction (cycling, football) or ones involving inanimate objects like cars. It's a shame you can't ride the horses right now. Hopefully that will be affordable again in future. I have a friend who regularly rode someone else's livery horse and I know her bond with the horse was really special.

However, you never know how children will turn out! My DD is super sociable, despite some social misunderstandings and difficulties from time to time. And actually so is one of my nieces despite her mum also being very limited socially. I think the main thing as children grow up is to live somewhere they can be somewhat independent as living in a rural, isolated place means either the parents have to be very actively involved with kids' social life or they are bored and lonely, especially if they're not close to a sibling.

So actually I think your house/school decision is ultimately pretty important!

I also don't think you're as antisocial as you think. You've been chatting extensively with people on here. You're articulate; you respond to people's points. You've taken on new information. You used to do a fairly sociable job, with some success it sounds like.

Yes we do want to move somewhere less rural for the kids as it will benefit them massively.

And yes hopefully one day I can have a horse again.

Talking to people on here discussing things is fine. Talking to people in person and making general chit chat not so much!

You’ll find that when your child starts school he gets invited to play dates. There will also be birthday parties and by Year 1 these will be drop off your child and pick up at the end. Of course you can say no, but how will you explain it to him when he asks why his friends are going to playdates and parties at each other’s houses and he is not?

And are you seriously going to teach him that he isn’t allowed to speak to his friends’ parents? How about adult volunteers on school trips and activities- are they banned from interacting with your child too? How is he going to learn social skills and living in a community if he is taught that every interaction must be individually cleared by you?

Honestly I don't know how I will approach birthday parties. It may be I just wait outside for the duration if I don't know the parents. That is a bridge I will cross when I get there.

I wouldn't ban him from talking to his friends parents if he knows them from playdates or if I am there. But I wouldn't expect him to talk to a random parent on the playground.

I wouldn't ban him from talking to his friends parents if he knows them from playdates or if I am there. But I wouldn't expect him to talk to a random parent on the playground.

But they will! Also, be prepared for your kids to know people you don’t! My DS has always been a talker so will chat to other parents at pick up or at after school club when I’m not there.
There have been times when an adult has acknowledged DS on the street and I’ve no idea who they are.

I have to say that if I was hosting a party for a bunch of 6 year olds and you waited outside our house for 2 hours that would make me very uncomfortable!

You wouldn't feel uncomfortable hosting a load of 6 year olds you didn't know and didn't know their parents?

As I say I have no idea how I will approach birthday parties. I will face that bridge when I come to it.

Of course not! We did it just last month. They aren’t random unknown children who turn up from nowhere, they are my daughter’s friends and part of our school community. I see them at pick up and drop off and in the park after school and say hi or “have a nice weekend” to them as we are going in and out of school. I have exchanged chit chat with their parents at pick up and drop off and from the class WhatsApp group and they can let me know if there’s anything to be aware of. Some of them have been over on play dates before and others haven’t but that is fine.

Why would I feel uncomfortable about having a group of children playing musical statues in my living room? What is there to feel uncomfortable about?

I also volunteer to support things at school like forest school or cycle training and I talk to the kids who do that. That doesn’t make me uncomfortable either and nor does it make me uncomfortable to know that when my kids do things like that there will be other parents there whom I don’t know who they may speak to as part of the activity.

No? Why would I? Why would anyone be uncomfortable with this?

@Karma1387 yiu need to get some therapy to get your anxiety in check because trust me you aren’t going to survive parenting without it or without frankly passing these issues onto your child(ren)

take the friends parents - I agree a random parent but schools often have dbs checked parents and grandparents going who aren’t going to be strangers to them: by all means teach them not to talk to strangers to them but that isn’t the same as strangers to you

and stop worrying about his capability for the future he is 2 of course he isn’t ready for any of the things a 4/5 year old. My two have a 3.5 year gap so DD is 2 years older than a lot of DS friends sister and they sometimes look and ask how I am ok with letting her go into London etc because she is nearly 17 she wasn’t ready at 15 she is now

letting your children grow into being independent fully functioning beings is by far the hardest part of parenting by far because you have to incrementally let go small little piece at a time

you need to both recognise that and learn how to cope (and trust me it isn’t easy for any parent) but also that age limits and age appropriate suggestions are there for a reason. By the time you leave you year 2/3 year old (7/8) at a party they will be ready of course your current 2 year old isn’t

@Karma1387 your posts are starting to really worry me.

• You don’t have friends and don’t want any
• You ideally would like to ‘keep [your DC] at home’ – that’s what you said, not educate them at home, keep them at home
• You say “if” your DC makes friends at school
• You think there is a safeguarding issue with your school-age child talking to a parent in the classroom, with the teacher there
• You don’t see any need ever to talk to strangers (which seems to mean anyone except your immediate family) or for your DC to do so
• You would not allow anyone else to take your DC to school or to an activity unless you had known them for many years (which seems unlikely since you have no friends and don’t want any)
• You live in a small under-resourced town that is isolated from other centres of population (I am from South Lincs so I knew it well)
• As you are not married you have no legal claim on your partner’s salary or pension and you only work two shifts a week
• You didn’t like school and you think your DC won’t either
• You plan not to let them out of your sight with people you don’t know until they are seven

I realise that your DC are young and I think (hope) that as they grow older your views will mellow. But honestly, you are setting yourself and your DC up for a life of sad isolation. You don’t need to be best mates with the parents at school; but I cannot count the number of times I have been so relieved to know another mum to pick up/drop off/look after my DC in a low-key way. That’s not a random parent you don’t know. It’s a neighbour whose DC are similar age to yours whom you have chatted to a bit and gone for coffee with. It’s fine. What do you think is going to happen?

You say you prioritise safety – but it’s not safe to keep your DC away from society like this.

Please be prepared to trust people more. And please don’t “keep them at home” beyond school age. If you are their main model of socialisation then they really need school and other kids and adults. You say repeatedly you won’t discourage your DC from making friends – but can you not see that your very opposition to the idea and total lack of friends is a very discouraging model to them? That’s how parenting works – our DC see us, we are their first teacher, and we need to model the behaviour we want from them. No use saying “don’t shout” and then shouting; no use having no friends and then saying “oh but you can have some”.

And that last question about a party – at the very least you know the DC are in your child’s class/Beaver group/football team. Of course it is fine. And no I wouldn’t feel uncomfortable even if there were kids there I didn’t know. My child knows them. It’s all good.

You know that when your child is at school they will talk to people you don’t know? Maybe people they don’t know! What if there is a school visit from the fire service or the police or a drama group or a poet or an artist? Will you need school to call you to check if it’s OK for your DC to sit in the fire engine cab?

By keep my kids at home I mean to educate them at home.

And yes 'if' my kids make friends. It isn't always a guarantee they will make friends. I didn't in some of the schools I was in.

I don't see the need for me to have friends or talk to strangers or let my kids talk to strangers.

You don’t need to be best mates with the parents at school; but I cannot count the number of times I have been so relieved to know another mum to pick up/drop off/look after my DC in a low-key way. That’s not a random parent you don’t know. It’s a neighbour whose DC are similar age to yours whom you have chatted to a bit and gone for coffee with.

I feel like their is a lot of assumptions here. What you are discribing isn't a stranger. You are describing a neighbour who you clearly know enough to chat to and to have coffee with. That isn't having someone you don't know picking up your child and assumes a relationship with said parent. I am stating I would not have a parent who I didn't know/talk to/ feel close enough to go out to coffee with (so basically a friend) pick my kids up from school or take them somewhere without me there.

I personally think its much better for me to he honest with my kids about why I don't have friends and explain to them that its okay if they ask than for me to force myself to have 'pretend' friendships and teach my kids you should just act like you have friends because its what society expects.

I went to one of the best grammar schools in the country. Then tried the local 6th form college for a month before begging to return (and doing so).

The main difference was that the grammar students absolutely wanted to do well. They were unbelievably motivated to so. No acting up in class, respectful towards the teachers etc. Being the top student was not cringey.

My experience in the fairly well regarded college was that the students were just extremely disruptive. Lessons often got derailed due to immature behaviour. Merely covering the syllabus for each lesson was a struggle.

The attitude towards learning and education was fundamentally different. I loved my experience at the grammar. Not oppressive at all.

But @Karma1387 you say you need to know the parent “well”. How will you ever get to that point if you refuse to speak to anyone you don’t know? if you won’t make friends as you don’t see the point? That is the point – making friends is not something to do bc “society expects it” – fgs. It’s to make your life easier in the examples I have given, and who knows, maybe to make it more pleasant. I’m trying to show you an example of why it can be a lifeline with young children to have friends or evenm just people you know vaguely who are in the same boat.

A neighbour I have chatted to and had a coffee with is not a close friend. I don’t really know them that well. Will I drop my DC round to them at 8.30 so they can take them to school with theirs as my other DC is chucking up and I need to stay home with them? Yes I will and I would be happy to reciprocate. I don’t need to see their DBS check before I am happy about the safety aspect.

Can you not see that your attitude (even for a parent of a pre-schooler) is way over the top and not at all usual? The birthday party question alone shows it.