To emigrate knowing it will devastate my mum?

[tangotingo]

I’m breaking my heart over this as I know deep down I want to go but it will break my mum’s heart.

Been with my partner 4 years, we are engaged to be married next year. I’m pregnant with our first baby. I’m British, partner is from Eastern Europe and his family have settled all over the place (he has relatives in Canada, his home country, Germany and Scandinavia).

His younger sister lives in Germany and has lived there a few years now. She has a partner. They are settled in a lovely small town there which is very safe. They only work hospitality jobs there but have a lower cost of living - they live off one partner’s wage and save the rest. They are considering moving to Hamburg for more job opportunities. They are at a very similar age and life stage to us and are also expecting their first baby. There is a particular industry in Hamburg which is very big and similar to what my partner does for work in the UK, don’t want to go into more detail as it’s quite niche but we’ve seen that one particular large firm encourages foreigners to apply if they have a relevant skillset. I would struggle a bit more as my skills are administrative/customer service so I’d likely end up being a stay-at-home parent whilst learning German. My job in the UK is only a call centre role so it’s not like I’d be giving up a career, so I’m willing to do it so long as we can afford to live. Partner’s sister is confident you can live on one wage over there, and also says she knows a firm that is easy to get into without speaking German as she has helped friends from her own country get in there, so she says she could help us get in their initially if we wanted whilst we’re settling.

I feel, probably quite selfishly, that there is nothing for me in the UK. My parents had me in their 40s, I’m in my 20s now and they are in their 60s. They are full-time carers to my autistic brother who is 25 and they refuse to take any steps to prepare him for the fact that they won’t always be around. He is verbal but doesn’t work, he doesn’t even have a mobile phone as he refuses one and they just accept it. My dad is a hoarder and I hate visiting their home as it stresses me out. I have half-siblings on my dad’s who are 20 years older than me and don’t care about me despite my efforts to have a relationship (I’ve attempted to meet them on their birthdays etc to not even receive a text on mine).

I have dealt with so much anxiety over the years about how care for my parents and brother is likely to all fall on to me in the future as my parents age (my half siblings have no interest). I live an hour drive away as when I met my partner I moved to a different city to be with him. We can’t move to my parent’s city as my partner’s industry doesn’t exist there. I feel absolutely stifled by thoughts of the future. Due to my parents age and being carers they won’t be able to offer me any practical support with my baby. Since I moved an hour away 3 years they’ve visited me less than a handful of times.

Due to large age gaps with my siblings and the fact that my partner has no family in the UK, my child will have no cousins to grow up with except for kids my partner’s sister will have in Germany. I recently have been crying my eyes out as I’ve realised nobody in my family deserves to be godparents to my child, nobody gives a shit enough. We’ve already decided godparents will be partners sister and her partner.

Me and my partner are so lonely and desperate to be around people in a similar life stage. He was quite depressed his last birthday as it fell during a heatwave and he wanted to have a BBQ and realised there was just nobody to really invite so we didn’t bother. It’s getting to him now we’re having a child I think.

Our part of the UK is incredibly rough and our car was stolen a few months ago. I hate the UK rainy grey weather and get seasonal depression, I know Germany is hardly a hot country but the UK is particularly bad due to being an island and we’ve enjoyed many lovely summer BBQs and outdoor parties when visiting Germany previously. I’ve always said no to my partner when he’s suggested moving as I feel bad leaving my parents, but since becoming pregnant I’ve started to want to prioritise baby more and I feel they will be better off if we go to Germany. I only really want 1 child but feel pressure to have 2 if we stay in the UK as I feel the child will be lonely, but it’s different if they will have cousins which they will have in Germany. My, my partner, my partner’s sister and her partner will all be able to support each other.

We have the money to emigrate and get settled - £25,000 in savings. This was originally meant to be a house deposit in the UK but every time we’ve found a home we’ve had to pull out due to the house having major damp issues. Every house in our budget is awful and requires major renovation works. We’ve essentially given up.

I have decided I want to go, I know it won’t be easy to find a rental and jobs etc but I want to at least start the process even if it takes a couple of years. Due to my partner’s EU citizenship I can tag along with him to get residency. I think it’s best for me, my partner and the baby. But I know it will break my mums heart. Can anyone give any insight please? Just to add as well they won’t be able to visit me at all as they are poor, and my dad and brother refuse to travel and mum refuses to leave them.

Mum was worried when I first starting dating someone from another country and said from day 1 “please don’t emigrate.”

Am I a selfish cow?

No-one is saying don't emigrate in case you split up and you're stuck in another country due to having a child!

Just be aware of the legal implications and possibilities and factor that into your decision making. Some poor souls are blindsided and find themselves having to rapidly gather information when the worst happens.

Have a look at the Cunning linguists and Living Overseas boards. There's a couple of useful Insta accounts for learning German:Easy German Videos for example

Would you still be so keen on moving to Germany if your family situation was different?
I ask because it seems like you are planning an escape (I don't mean that unkindly) from the potential undertaking of caring responsibilities

I currently live abroad and I just want to say that moving countries is HUGE. It puts a lot of stress on a couple. Throw a baby in the mix, and the pressure is insane. Lots of relationships break down. Maternity leave is quite isolating and if you don't speak the language, it will be doubly hard. I speak German and honestly, it's a tough language to learn, you need to learn now. I have family who emigrated to Germany too. It's wonderful. But if you don't speak the language, unless you're super highly skilled in something niche, you won't get any jobs beyond minimum wage.

And you come across as so, so passive. Everything is everyone else's fault. You could make a good life for yourself but it takes a lot more determination and being a lot more proactive than you are currently.

I might add as well I have had experience living abroad.

I have always desired to move away from the UK since being young, I’m not quite sure why but I’ve always been keen. I was heartbroken when Brexit happened and resentful of my parents who’d voted for it. With the idea of doing anything in the EU seeming a lot more out of reach I ended up doing a 2 year working holiday in Canada and went on my own. It was hard at times but I had a blast. My parents were younger then. I could’ve extended my visa but didn’t see myself living long-term in North America due to their working culture and cost of living. I then came home and resigned myself to stay in the UK. Then I coincidentally fell in love with an EU citizen and Europe opened up again to me. But by then my parents had aged more, developed their chronic health issues and I felt stuck.

I adore Europe and love Germany from when I have visited. I know it will be hard. I remember a few awkward experiences when applying for my social security card in Canada and not understanding some of the social queues etc. but I settled eventually and did well. I know it’ll be harder in Germany due to the language but I will be able to learn.

I hope that provides some more insight into my motivations.

yes read my latest comment

OP, it is a no brainer. Just go. Make a new life for yourself and your family in Germany. You are very fortunate to have the means to escape so start now.

No need to succumb to your mother's guilt trip. You are actually do them a favour by leaving. Once they realise you are no longer the safety net, this will give them the impetus to sort themselves out hopefully before it is too late.

You know, put on your oxygen mask first. Even if it goes to pot with them later, at least you have the headspace and capacity to sort them out, but not if you are miserable yourself and going half mad bracing for a storm.

@tangotingo is there a reason you haven’t started learning the language

No the same applies in the EU. As long as the EU nation can support the family members, the residency is easy. Very straight forward process.

@tangotingo as my name says, I did what you're thinking of doing 22 years ago, except I'd only just met the guy and I wasn't pregnant.

He was German, though. The only German I knew was from my school GCSE, which I'd only done for a year. I'm assuming your partner speaks German? It will be much harder if neither of you speak the language so at the very least I'd start learning it already.

I loved it and never regretted moving there. I much prefer it to the UK, although it does have similar issues in a lot of ways.

We are still together and have grown up dc now.
It was hard at first, especially not knowing much German, but it's worth persevering.

I wouldn't say food is cheaper, though. Childcare definitely was at the time I needed it.

Go for it. You can always return if it doesn't work out.

If you have a challenging family it can feel like you are being pulled down. I can see why you want to go OP.

We moved because of a career that involves international moves - it's just baked in.

It could be the making of you.

Go!

I would leave the UK for a European country in a heartbeat if I could….i can’t because of bloody brexit!

What happens if your partner’s sister and her partner move to another city or another country? You’re putting all your hopes onto a couple that may get job opportunities somewhere else, or just change their plans.

No it’s a thing within the EU too. My partner would be able to live and work in Germany quite easily due to his EU status. I’d originally go on a visitors permit and we’d do the EU reunification application which would allow me to live and work there and we as a household would be able look at accessing basic social support such as the German equivalent of child benefit, childcare etc

The EU is bloody fab

Does your partner speak German @tangotingo? Sorry if I've missed that further back.

Go for it!
I fully agree with you, you can’t plan your life around the fact that you could one day get divorced. The fact that Germany is a ‘neutral’ country for both of you, means you’ll start on an equal foot, which is much better than going to his home country.
Just start learning German asap!

I am with others who caution about the language barrier and if your relationship breaks up etc. However it is not as if you have a lot of lose by going and in fact a lot to gain if you put the effort to plan and fingers crossed it it all works out in Germany.

It will happen overnight so start with the language classes, researching the visa situation, looking a potential jobs.

I emigated thousands of miles across oceans 25 years ago and did it almost on the spur of the moment. It has worked out. The bottom line is I know my nuclear family is in the UK, so until the children are grown, that is where I will be. I got a job, naturalised British citizenship, over the years to secure my position. The children are grown and I am still here and very unlikely to go back (unless the tax regime in the UK pisses me off enough).

Germany is very civilised.

When and how do you aquire citizenship rights or rights for health care etc?

When and how do you acquire right to work?

How are you with languages, I wouldnt have thought German is that easy, does your partner speak German?

What would you do for work?

What are the rental costs for property in the nice bits of Hamburg, are they affordable on your proposed incomes or would you be in virtually the same sort of environment as you are now?

It may be different now, but at the time I didn't have a job to go to, so he had to sign that he had enough money to support me, and as is also right, I wasn't able to access German benefits until I'd been in work for 12 months continuously. That was when we were in the EU, and I'm British and was living in the UK.

ETA... I also had to take out private health insurance covering doctor and dentist, etc

I would go for it, it sounds like you have a clear idea of how life will look there and like you say the UK is a shitshow! It doesn’t really sound like you have anything keeping you here.

Go and try it out. Or maybe go and spend a lot of time there before officially moving.

Yes it definitely would be a process and not instant, we’d make sure we were prepared accordingly before going,

There's always push and pull factors to a move.

I don't think I'll move from the UK (was naturalised as a British Citizen yesterday).

Looks like Germany consistently ranks as one of the best countries to raise kids https://www.afar.com/magazine/the-best-countries-for-raising-a-family#:~:text=Hanohiki/Shutterstock-,Germany,education%20and%20health%2Dcare%20systems.

I don’t know the ins and outs, but my cousin with EU citizenship and his non EU wife moved there and had twins. They said there’s lots of help and childcare/education/family support/benefits are attractive. Can you bring the wedding forward to make the immigration process easier?

anecdotally I think the Germans are great craic. Dry sense of humour. All speak great English. Appreciate this is just the ones I know. I also really enjoy being in Germany. The cities feel calm and clean.

These decisions aren’t irreversible. Why not give it a go and see how it is? Good luck x

What would you do for support if his sister and partner decided NOT to move to Hamburg? You’d be left in a similar situation to now, just with your DH ( no criticism, just an observation). It would be upsetting if that turned out to be the case.

The only personal advice I can give is you would have to learn German. Fast. My sister lived in Amsterdam for years, I had a Dutch boyfriend in UK, I visited countless times on my own. Had a bit of Dutch, but literally everyone spoke excellent English. I visited Germany last year with DS17 for a week, I did German at school, didn’t give the language thing a second thought. I assumed it’d be like the Netherlands. We arrived at a very small city airport ( only reason I’d heard of it was UEFA 🙄!), and traveled hour away on train to a small town ( to visit his friend). Aside from the lovely Syrian taxi drivers, a random Irish guy roped in to translate and one girl in TK Maxx, everyone spoke German. I’d forgotten most of my German and I felt ashamed for assuming “they” would speak English, but, more importantly and worryingly, I felt anxious as I was responsible for my son and would have been in difficulties had an emergency arose. That would be my only concern.

Whatever you decide, I hope you have a happy and healthy pregnancy and wish you the very best of luck 🍀!

Odetogermanwords is another fun Insta account.