To emigrate knowing it will devastate my mum?

[tangotingo]

I’m breaking my heart over this as I know deep down I want to go but it will break my mum’s heart.

Been with my partner 4 years, we are engaged to be married next year. I’m pregnant with our first baby. I’m British, partner is from Eastern Europe and his family have settled all over the place (he has relatives in Canada, his home country, Germany and Scandinavia).

His younger sister lives in Germany and has lived there a few years now. She has a partner. They are settled in a lovely small town there which is very safe. They only work hospitality jobs there but have a lower cost of living - they live off one partner’s wage and save the rest. They are considering moving to Hamburg for more job opportunities. They are at a very similar age and life stage to us and are also expecting their first baby. There is a particular industry in Hamburg which is very big and similar to what my partner does for work in the UK, don’t want to go into more detail as it’s quite niche but we’ve seen that one particular large firm encourages foreigners to apply if they have a relevant skillset. I would struggle a bit more as my skills are administrative/customer service so I’d likely end up being a stay-at-home parent whilst learning German. My job in the UK is only a call centre role so it’s not like I’d be giving up a career, so I’m willing to do it so long as we can afford to live. Partner’s sister is confident you can live on one wage over there, and also says she knows a firm that is easy to get into without speaking German as she has helped friends from her own country get in there, so she says she could help us get in their initially if we wanted whilst we’re settling.

I feel, probably quite selfishly, that there is nothing for me in the UK. My parents had me in their 40s, I’m in my 20s now and they are in their 60s. They are full-time carers to my autistic brother who is 25 and they refuse to take any steps to prepare him for the fact that they won’t always be around. He is verbal but doesn’t work, he doesn’t even have a mobile phone as he refuses one and they just accept it. My dad is a hoarder and I hate visiting their home as it stresses me out. I have half-siblings on my dad’s who are 20 years older than me and don’t care about me despite my efforts to have a relationship (I’ve attempted to meet them on their birthdays etc to not even receive a text on mine).

I have dealt with so much anxiety over the years about how care for my parents and brother is likely to all fall on to me in the future as my parents age (my half siblings have no interest). I live an hour drive away as when I met my partner I moved to a different city to be with him. We can’t move to my parent’s city as my partner’s industry doesn’t exist there. I feel absolutely stifled by thoughts of the future. Due to my parents age and being carers they won’t be able to offer me any practical support with my baby. Since I moved an hour away 3 years they’ve visited me less than a handful of times.

Due to large age gaps with my siblings and the fact that my partner has no family in the UK, my child will have no cousins to grow up with except for kids my partner’s sister will have in Germany. I recently have been crying my eyes out as I’ve realised nobody in my family deserves to be godparents to my child, nobody gives a shit enough. We’ve already decided godparents will be partners sister and her partner.

Me and my partner are so lonely and desperate to be around people in a similar life stage. He was quite depressed his last birthday as it fell during a heatwave and he wanted to have a BBQ and realised there was just nobody to really invite so we didn’t bother. It’s getting to him now we’re having a child I think.

Our part of the UK is incredibly rough and our car was stolen a few months ago. I hate the UK rainy grey weather and get seasonal depression, I know Germany is hardly a hot country but the UK is particularly bad due to being an island and we’ve enjoyed many lovely summer BBQs and outdoor parties when visiting Germany previously. I’ve always said no to my partner when he’s suggested moving as I feel bad leaving my parents, but since becoming pregnant I’ve started to want to prioritise baby more and I feel they will be better off if we go to Germany. I only really want 1 child but feel pressure to have 2 if we stay in the UK as I feel the child will be lonely, but it’s different if they will have cousins which they will have in Germany. My, my partner, my partner’s sister and her partner will all be able to support each other.

We have the money to emigrate and get settled - £25,000 in savings. This was originally meant to be a house deposit in the UK but every time we’ve found a home we’ve had to pull out due to the house having major damp issues. Every house in our budget is awful and requires major renovation works. We’ve essentially given up.

I have decided I want to go, I know it won’t be easy to find a rental and jobs etc but I want to at least start the process even if it takes a couple of years. Due to my partner’s EU citizenship I can tag along with him to get residency. I think it’s best for me, my partner and the baby. But I know it will break my mums heart. Can anyone give any insight please? Just to add as well they won’t be able to visit me at all as they are poor, and my dad and brother refuse to travel and mum refuses to leave them.

Mum was worried when I first starting dating someone from another country and said from day 1 “please don’t emigrate.”

Am I a selfish cow?

Some links to Germans teaching German online:

https://www.youtube.com/@EasyGerman

How often do you visit your parents @tangotingo ?

Given they voted for brexit… I bet they kicked up a stink when you got together with someone from Eastern Europe?!

@Thattimenow - the OP had already answered both of those questions, at least read her posts before commenting!

Well this really .........

I had assumed that he had a job lined up. So - new baby, no home,no income, tiny savings (honestly £20K is nowhere near enough). Are you sure they will let you stay even with such few assets?

My concern would be getting a job out there. My exH had a job in logistics for 18 years in the army… when he left he struggled to get a job anywhere in the field he was qualified. We live near a huge U.K. Docks down south of the U.K. He applied for several jobs in the docks over the years but dock jobs are to get, with people staying till they either die or retire, then it seems their sons, friends etc have an advantage…..
Also are employment laws as good about there? (Around diversity and equality) - my brother lives in EU with his wife and the country they’ve lived in for 2 decades will always employ locals before employing foreigners. My SIL speaks the language fluently and struggles to even get a supermarket job! Maybe Germany is different but definitely worth looking into. I would suggest something like Dock work in a place like Hamburg would always have lots of applicants per a role and that your DP would always be at a disadvantage being a non German and not knowing the language!

I think you’re underestimating how difficult it will be to get jobs and settle out there.. You both need to be learning German and he needs to start applying for jobs months before you go! I’d recommend he goes out there and stays with his sister, attends interviews and for you to follow if and when he actually gets a job offer! IF he’s happy not to work in the industry he’s trained in then look at other areas away from the dock area where COL would be cheaper.

She has said that she visits them every 6 weeks now, and that they actively gloated that the Brexit vote meant she wouldn’t be able to leave, and that they were racist towards her partner when they first got together,

She has also said she plans to visit them 2-3 times a year from Germany ( as compared to 8-9 times a year now).

I haven't rt whole thread so apologies if this has been mentioned but I just wanted to say do not underestimate German bureaucracy. My DS lives in Germany with his fully German partner*. He also has a German grandparent. (He is UK born). I cannot tell you how long-winded it has been for him to organise his resident status - and he has a job. Medical insurance is also complicated if you move jobs and have a gap your right to stay may be affected. I wish you well (as an aside, we see him quite a bit, high days and holidays - it's Germany, not Australia after all, so from a parent's pov, for us it works fine).

*edited to add - you need a fluent German speaker to navigate this process

Where did op say this? I’ve read all of OP’s comments and never read anything about Brexit or racism?!

It was said here by OP:

I had a fall-out with my parents in 2016 over Brexit as I was saddened that it would be harder for me to try living and working in the EU in the future and I had mentioned this to them. They were very vicious and nasty about it and said they were glad they voted Brexit as now I couldn’t “bugger off” anymore. I haven’t really gotten over it and it contributed to my decision to go to Canada for 2 years. But the desire to move to Europe never really went away.
There were also a few unpleasant comments when I started dating a “foreigner” though they did come round and like him now.

Look at further study in Germany. There are minimal tuition costs.

Hamburg isn't far away. Once you get settled in jobs you can help your Mum with flights to visit. I have a friend whose Mum lives in Hamburg and she often goes over. It looks a great place to live with a lot going on. More people rent in Germany - there's not the same pressure to buy a house. It's getting more and more expensive to live in the UK so people don't have spare cash to enjoy life. Just go for it!

You won't just walk into any role you want based on the fact they apparently want English speakers, you will need to have relevant industry experience! You will also be a new mother which will make you a less attractive proposition than anyone else who will be easily able to fit in to full time work or shift work. Malta is a nice place to visit but it's a largely barren island with notoriously very bad traffic in the urban areas. Have you actually investigated property prices in Malta because you are likely to be up against the fact that there isn't ample housing available on the island. You need to investigate jobs and housing before you plan to go anywhere! You seem to be telling yourself that it will be vastly easier than it is to up and move abroad! You are not guaranteed a job as a non-eu new mother, it takes a lot more than just speaking English to get a job! As said on another post, what is your back up plan if your partner gets made redundant! You are very vulnerable given that neither of you have any legal link to these countries and you are pregnant and not a skilled professional with poor earning potential for the foreseeable future.

She would come back homeless and penniless if it went wrong! That's very irresponsible when there's a baby in the picture. She isn't guaranteed a better quality of life because their financial situation is poor, that means living in insalubrious areas!

You do know that she's non EU and would have to leave the country if she split from her partner, she would need a £30k a year salary to apply to stay in a EU country which isn't going to happen.

This is too broad and absolute. There are retained rights of residence in some circumstances, and having an EU national child also potentially makes her a Zambrano carer. Better to say that OP should familiarise herself with all potential permutations if the relationship ends, and after how long.

I would go….but I’d be sure to get married first. Even if it’s just popping down the registry office. Give birth and register the birth in the UK.

And 100% start learning German, it will be very isolating not being able to communicate I think.

I actually agree with you here. You are making this decision based on very likely and true facts - your parents are aging, your brother needs care, you aren’t happy where you live. Factoring in all the “what ifs” is important yes, of course, but it makes more sense to base this decision on what you do know is actually happening rather than hypotheticals.

Your original post asked if you are being selfish. Yes you are, in a way, but honestly I think that’s fine. It’s your life! Be a little selfish. And ultimately it’s not just for you but for your family (OH and Baby) too.

You don't sound switched on when you think you can work anywhere you want, live anywhere you want, you are intending to both arrive unemployed somewhere! I haven't said anything about your partner's job but there'll be many like him applying for these port jobs, you need to ensure he gets a secure job lined up before you go anywhere and you need to really look into affordability as your earning potential is questionable especially as you will have a new baby. Jobs markets are hard, your experience is call centre work and that sadly does not transfer well to foreign countries as to will not be able to work on phones without being fluent in the language. Again look fully at where you would end up living, these areas could be very depressing to live in on your budget.

The problem is nobody in the equation is German either so it's expecting a lot of Germany to give them rights any time soon.

It's the way EU free movement law works.

I think you're right to suggest OP consider all the permutations here, but the way to do that is through specialist advice.

Whilst I think you should do what's best for you I'm concerned that if you split up can you and the baby come home? Also you need to work. I'd be worried that you are financially vulnerable without a job.

Could you agree to try it just for a few years? Also, I think you need to be very clear to your DPs you are not looking after your brother. They need to sort something out now. My bf has been on at his relatives to sort their child out. He's now nearly 50 with no life skills and savings so I don't know what they expect to happen when they pass.

OP would be getting very different responses if she was following her British partner to his new finance job in Frankfurt.

And sure, some of that would be about her partner having a relatively secure good income. But a lot of it is simply snobbery.

Yes exactly. I forgot that on Mumsnet everybody’s DH is a high-up in a tech-finance company in central London earning 6 figures.

He’s worked damn hard from nothing to get where he is now. I’ve no doubt he could do it again.