To emigrate knowing it will devastate my mum?

[tangotingo]

I’m breaking my heart over this as I know deep down I want to go but it will break my mum’s heart.

Been with my partner 4 years, we are engaged to be married next year. I’m pregnant with our first baby. I’m British, partner is from Eastern Europe and his family have settled all over the place (he has relatives in Canada, his home country, Germany and Scandinavia).

His younger sister lives in Germany and has lived there a few years now. She has a partner. They are settled in a lovely small town there which is very safe. They only work hospitality jobs there but have a lower cost of living - they live off one partner’s wage and save the rest. They are considering moving to Hamburg for more job opportunities. They are at a very similar age and life stage to us and are also expecting their first baby. There is a particular industry in Hamburg which is very big and similar to what my partner does for work in the UK, don’t want to go into more detail as it’s quite niche but we’ve seen that one particular large firm encourages foreigners to apply if they have a relevant skillset. I would struggle a bit more as my skills are administrative/customer service so I’d likely end up being a stay-at-home parent whilst learning German. My job in the UK is only a call centre role so it’s not like I’d be giving up a career, so I’m willing to do it so long as we can afford to live. Partner’s sister is confident you can live on one wage over there, and also says she knows a firm that is easy to get into without speaking German as she has helped friends from her own country get in there, so she says she could help us get in their initially if we wanted whilst we’re settling.

I feel, probably quite selfishly, that there is nothing for me in the UK. My parents had me in their 40s, I’m in my 20s now and they are in their 60s. They are full-time carers to my autistic brother who is 25 and they refuse to take any steps to prepare him for the fact that they won’t always be around. He is verbal but doesn’t work, he doesn’t even have a mobile phone as he refuses one and they just accept it. My dad is a hoarder and I hate visiting their home as it stresses me out. I have half-siblings on my dad’s who are 20 years older than me and don’t care about me despite my efforts to have a relationship (I’ve attempted to meet them on their birthdays etc to not even receive a text on mine).

I have dealt with so much anxiety over the years about how care for my parents and brother is likely to all fall on to me in the future as my parents age (my half siblings have no interest). I live an hour drive away as when I met my partner I moved to a different city to be with him. We can’t move to my parent’s city as my partner’s industry doesn’t exist there. I feel absolutely stifled by thoughts of the future. Due to my parents age and being carers they won’t be able to offer me any practical support with my baby. Since I moved an hour away 3 years they’ve visited me less than a handful of times.

Due to large age gaps with my siblings and the fact that my partner has no family in the UK, my child will have no cousins to grow up with except for kids my partner’s sister will have in Germany. I recently have been crying my eyes out as I’ve realised nobody in my family deserves to be godparents to my child, nobody gives a shit enough. We’ve already decided godparents will be partners sister and her partner.

Me and my partner are so lonely and desperate to be around people in a similar life stage. He was quite depressed his last birthday as it fell during a heatwave and he wanted to have a BBQ and realised there was just nobody to really invite so we didn’t bother. It’s getting to him now we’re having a child I think.

Our part of the UK is incredibly rough and our car was stolen a few months ago. I hate the UK rainy grey weather and get seasonal depression, I know Germany is hardly a hot country but the UK is particularly bad due to being an island and we’ve enjoyed many lovely summer BBQs and outdoor parties when visiting Germany previously. I’ve always said no to my partner when he’s suggested moving as I feel bad leaving my parents, but since becoming pregnant I’ve started to want to prioritise baby more and I feel they will be better off if we go to Germany. I only really want 1 child but feel pressure to have 2 if we stay in the UK as I feel the child will be lonely, but it’s different if they will have cousins which they will have in Germany. My, my partner, my partner’s sister and her partner will all be able to support each other.

We have the money to emigrate and get settled - £25,000 in savings. This was originally meant to be a house deposit in the UK but every time we’ve found a home we’ve had to pull out due to the house having major damp issues. Every house in our budget is awful and requires major renovation works. We’ve essentially given up.

I have decided I want to go, I know it won’t be easy to find a rental and jobs etc but I want to at least start the process even if it takes a couple of years. Due to my partner’s EU citizenship I can tag along with him to get residency. I think it’s best for me, my partner and the baby. But I know it will break my mums heart. Can anyone give any insight please? Just to add as well they won’t be able to visit me at all as they are poor, and my dad and brother refuse to travel and mum refuses to leave them.

Mum was worried when I first starting dating someone from another country and said from day 1 “please don’t emigrate.”

Am I a selfish cow?

Also I enjoy a podcast called What are you doing in Denmark - it's about moving to Denmark but actually touches in the international move situation as well. It's great fun and deals with the emotional and practical aspects of moving from one country to another, particularly around language acquisition.

For Gods sake please go!! Put your own family first. Stay in the UK and as well as living somewhere ‘rough and depressing’ you’ll only end up being an unpaid carer for your parents and brother in a few years. PLEASE go!!

Go for it OP. You sound sensible. And you deserve a life away from the caring responsibilities that will be expected of you.

I wanted to live in Germany once upon a time. Then I became a solicitor, meaning I can only work in England or Wales.

I found German easier to learn than French (apart from the ruddy word endings).

YANBU for seeking a better situation for your family.

YABU to agree to move to Germany unless you’ve fully investigated and considered: your personal eligibility and ability to find reasonably paid work; to have the right to remain for some years and access public services; implications for you personally - and your DC - of SAH for some time in the event of breaking up; and (really important) family law around divorce, splitting assets on divorce, and custody of DC on divorce.

The family law could mean you’d both be stuck there and unable to take your DC to live in your ‘home’ nations in the event of breaking up.

Your personal economic prospects would be much worse there than in the UK.

The problem is you've put a major barrier in front of you being able to work by being already pregnant! You simply won't be able to live anywhere in Europe you want because you've little money and your partner hasn't got a very lucrative career and his work.is port based! Do your research on where you could actually end up living as think you could end up in a very depressing situation with the small budget you've got. I've been to most countries of Europe and yes I adore the many cities and is like to retire to somewhere in Eastern Europe like Lake Ohrid but my partner and I have established careers and property equity, many of these beautiful cities have apartment block living not too far out the centre! Rows and rows of bland cramped apartment blocks because you need wealth to live in the cities themselves

Do it! It's far from selfish to want to create a life for your family. I hate to tell you that if you already feel stifled and overwhelmed, with little family support, it's going to get a million times worse when you have your baby. You desperately need support and a network around you, otherwise you'll be completely isolated.

It honestly sounds like your standard of living will be much better, you'll have the opportunity to connect with family at the same stage of life and will give your child the chance to grown up around cousins.

Germany really isn't far, and if your parents want to see you, you can still arrange that (be prepared for them to make as much effort as they have been while you're in the UK though). It may also encourage them to think seriously about your sibling's long term care, and get something in place - if they haven't already.

Honestly, you don't owe anyone (other than yourself and your child) your time, money or mental wellbeing.

Edited to say: do make sure your visa situation is feasible, and your finances will work, first!

You have strong views and no I'm not a "bloke". I'm just giving my advice and support to a young couple. She doesn't sound as though she's in a frying pan. She's carefully considering her future and her options. If she goes, and it doesn't work out, she'll have still have learned something and will at least be controlling her destiny. She explained what her options of achieving a new life are and I expect that is her main dilemma.

Her posts do not indicate she is "carefully considering her future and her options".

Your advice would be valid IF she were not pregnant but she is.
That changes everything and pretending it doesn't is dishonest.
Will you step in to help her when the shit inevitably hits the fan?
No you won't, so you shouldn't encourage someone to go down this path.

"She'll still have learned something" will be poor consolation if she ends up a single mother in a foreign country, unable to work and unable to leave if her ex decides to block her. She's not even married which makes that scenario ever more likely. She won't be in a position to "control her own destiny" then...

Would you give that advice to your own daughter?
I think not.

Your 60s are not your twilight years! Most people in their 60s are still working, not an inconvenience to their families and nowhere near entering an old people’s home!

I'm in my sixties and the reality is that many working-class people don't make it to 70. The life expectancy of men in the working-class area I grew up in is 62 while the life expectancy of middle-class men in the area I now live in is 82.
The physical distance between the two areas is less than 10 miles...
There's a huge class divide when it comes to life-expectancy.
My own father died aged 62 and my mother at 66.
They were both in their "twilight years".

20% of working-class men die before reaching 65 in the UK compared to just 7% of middle-class men based on research carried out by Malcolm Wicks, a former Labour MP who died himself at the age of 65.

I did wonder this...good post

Stand by my advice and have given similar in the past and it worked out, that's why I can repeat it. Depends on the people and their personalities of course.

I understand social inequalities and the impact on life expectancy. I come from a very working class background myself. Both my grandads died in their 60s, but they had not been in their ‘twilight’ years before that. They dropped dead, largely from the exertions of manual labour all their lives, heavy drinking and smoking like chimneys since they were teenagers. Both my grandmothers however lived into their 80s and that wasn’t because they hadn’t been worn out by physical labour (one had given birth to and raised 14 children!). Neither drank or smoked. My own parents, solidly working class, are still alive in their 80s. They are still active, though they have the usual aches, pain and ailments of old age.

OP, did you train in social psychology? There may be government social research roles that use social science degrees in Manchester as well as Liverpool, where you don't have to be in the office more than 2-3 days a week.

You have already made your mind up @tangotingo !
I feel your original post would have been better off saying :
I am a British born pregnant lady planning to emigrate with my European Fiancé to live near to some of his family… who u get on with really well…… I live an hour away from my small family, (my parents autistic brother) who I rarely see and will not be of any support to me and baby….
How do I tell my parents I’m moving abroad to live?…..

It’s a psychology/sociology combined honours so there’s really no jobs available unfortunately. I’d need a masters and probably even further education after that which would be a money pit.

I’m definitely up for bulking up my qualifications before going abroad, but further university would be so expensive. It is essentially as time-consuming a full time job except you’re paying for the pleasure.

I’d be up for a course I could do remotely around my baby’s routines. Luckily my partner works 4 days on 4 days off so he’d be able to have the baby and let me get my head down when necessary. I’d be willing to pay an initial cost but not thousands. Some sort of formal German language qualification would be ideal.

Me and DP both obviously need German but I think it’s a bit more imperative for me as my skills are office/customer service/admin based. He’s more hands on and could work in a warehouse - where he’d still need the language but not to the same level if you see what I mean.

You would’ve got more helpful comments if you’d asked for advice on how to break the news to your heartbroken mother who refuses to travel so you will barely see once you’ve gone….
I have to say it is heartbreaking and your poor mother is having to cope with a husband who has mental health issues and a son with LD & ASD…
IF you were staying here I’d be having a convo with your mum right now telling her that she needs to be prepping your brother for independent living & making it VERY clear that you will not be taking on this role and if he can’t live alone will be going into a home!
As you’re pretty set on going - I would look into it all, get everything ready and then tell mum and dad months before you leave. Then sell it as he’s got a job offer out there and he wants to go and you have looked into it and it’s better way of life for you and baby!
She will be heartbroken, I’ve watched my parents grieve for my sister and her two children when they moved away, knowing they’d probably never see them again… but it’s your life

Obviously when I said “anywhere within Europe” I meant within reason. A random provincial town with no job prospects obviously wouldn’t do. We’ve researched for quite a few years.

There are EU countries that’d probably be easier for us to get a job in than Germany. I think I’d find role within Malta as they have a large industry in IGaming which requires customer service and administrative staff, and English tends to be the working language there. Similarly they have a port, in which English is the working language. Furthermore an airport with all sorts of roles for English speakers. Childcare is also free there for working parents and a lot of nurseries appear to be open 7-7 which is fab!

Spain - language definitely an issue there but there’s a much larger British expat community and I’d have a chance of forging connections with British owned businesses if in the right area.

The appeal with Germany is him having a relative already settled there.

To add as well, I’m not planning on moving whilst pregnant

Go! Try it out, you have nothing to lose and you might love it! Germany isn’t far away and you can visit. I adore my children, but they have a right to independence. I think you and your husband do as well. Please don’t ditch the plan. I promise, you’ll regret it.

Thank you!

From the beginning of our relationship we’d had the idea that we’d move to Europe eventually, but I had a wobble because of my parents.

We then resigned ourselves to staying in the UK but after having several property purchases fall through due to major damp issues with the house, we’ve become disheartened. To have an acceptable house in an area that’s not awfully rough we’d be looking at a £1300+ monthly mortgage and all of our savings being taken by a deposit. And our childcare quote is extortionate even with the funding. We’d be struggling to make ends meet even if we both worked full-time. I wouldn’t feel secure staying here either.

I already wonder where we’d be now if we’d just gone originally.

Try the Open University for courses. It’s v busy adult friendly. Adult ed classes are your best bet for language classes.

Your degree should have had research methods training - I've worked with government social researchers with first degrees (no Masters) in both psychology and sociology. You don't need a Masters. There is a huge amount of free 'teach yourself' material online. Now may not be the time though.

You’ve repeatedly mentioned that you’d like to get a degree in a different field but that finances are holding you back. Public universities in Germany are essentially tuition-free. You usually only pay a semester contribution (often around €100–300, depending on the university), which typically includes a ticket for all regional public transport.
For most programs taught in German, you’d need to demonstrate advanced language skills (around C1), so it’s not an immediate solution, but it could be a great long-term motivation to really commit to becoming fluent. There’s also a growing number of courses taught entirely in English, though these are more common at master’s level than at bachelor’s level, but you might even be able to find something that would work with your existing degree and make you more employable.

I agree with previous posters that the idea of surviving on one wage in a city like Hamburg (or even commuter towns in that region) is unrealistic unless the working spouse is a properly high earner, so being a SAHM might not happen, make things very tight or could land you in an equally rough area as your current neighbourhood. Also, the currently terrible shape of the Germany economy, a ridiculous tax burden and unsustainable government spending especially on social welfare stuff (painful cuts will definitely have to happen) wouldn't particularly make me want to move to Germany (I say this as a German living in Germany), but I can still see why you would want to. Hope it all works out for you and good luck!