To emigrate knowing it will devastate my mum?

[tangotingo]

I’m breaking my heart over this as I know deep down I want to go but it will break my mum’s heart.

Been with my partner 4 years, we are engaged to be married next year. I’m pregnant with our first baby. I’m British, partner is from Eastern Europe and his family have settled all over the place (he has relatives in Canada, his home country, Germany and Scandinavia).

His younger sister lives in Germany and has lived there a few years now. She has a partner. They are settled in a lovely small town there which is very safe. They only work hospitality jobs there but have a lower cost of living - they live off one partner’s wage and save the rest. They are considering moving to Hamburg for more job opportunities. They are at a very similar age and life stage to us and are also expecting their first baby. There is a particular industry in Hamburg which is very big and similar to what my partner does for work in the UK, don’t want to go into more detail as it’s quite niche but we’ve seen that one particular large firm encourages foreigners to apply if they have a relevant skillset. I would struggle a bit more as my skills are administrative/customer service so I’d likely end up being a stay-at-home parent whilst learning German. My job in the UK is only a call centre role so it’s not like I’d be giving up a career, so I’m willing to do it so long as we can afford to live. Partner’s sister is confident you can live on one wage over there, and also says she knows a firm that is easy to get into without speaking German as she has helped friends from her own country get in there, so she says she could help us get in their initially if we wanted whilst we’re settling.

I feel, probably quite selfishly, that there is nothing for me in the UK. My parents had me in their 40s, I’m in my 20s now and they are in their 60s. They are full-time carers to my autistic brother who is 25 and they refuse to take any steps to prepare him for the fact that they won’t always be around. He is verbal but doesn’t work, he doesn’t even have a mobile phone as he refuses one and they just accept it. My dad is a hoarder and I hate visiting their home as it stresses me out. I have half-siblings on my dad’s who are 20 years older than me and don’t care about me despite my efforts to have a relationship (I’ve attempted to meet them on their birthdays etc to not even receive a text on mine).

I have dealt with so much anxiety over the years about how care for my parents and brother is likely to all fall on to me in the future as my parents age (my half siblings have no interest). I live an hour drive away as when I met my partner I moved to a different city to be with him. We can’t move to my parent’s city as my partner’s industry doesn’t exist there. I feel absolutely stifled by thoughts of the future. Due to my parents age and being carers they won’t be able to offer me any practical support with my baby. Since I moved an hour away 3 years they’ve visited me less than a handful of times.

Due to large age gaps with my siblings and the fact that my partner has no family in the UK, my child will have no cousins to grow up with except for kids my partner’s sister will have in Germany. I recently have been crying my eyes out as I’ve realised nobody in my family deserves to be godparents to my child, nobody gives a shit enough. We’ve already decided godparents will be partners sister and her partner.

Me and my partner are so lonely and desperate to be around people in a similar life stage. He was quite depressed his last birthday as it fell during a heatwave and he wanted to have a BBQ and realised there was just nobody to really invite so we didn’t bother. It’s getting to him now we’re having a child I think.

Our part of the UK is incredibly rough and our car was stolen a few months ago. I hate the UK rainy grey weather and get seasonal depression, I know Germany is hardly a hot country but the UK is particularly bad due to being an island and we’ve enjoyed many lovely summer BBQs and outdoor parties when visiting Germany previously. I’ve always said no to my partner when he’s suggested moving as I feel bad leaving my parents, but since becoming pregnant I’ve started to want to prioritise baby more and I feel they will be better off if we go to Germany. I only really want 1 child but feel pressure to have 2 if we stay in the UK as I feel the child will be lonely, but it’s different if they will have cousins which they will have in Germany. My, my partner, my partner’s sister and her partner will all be able to support each other.

We have the money to emigrate and get settled - £25,000 in savings. This was originally meant to be a house deposit in the UK but every time we’ve found a home we’ve had to pull out due to the house having major damp issues. Every house in our budget is awful and requires major renovation works. We’ve essentially given up.

I have decided I want to go, I know it won’t be easy to find a rental and jobs etc but I want to at least start the process even if it takes a couple of years. Due to my partner’s EU citizenship I can tag along with him to get residency. I think it’s best for me, my partner and the baby. But I know it will break my mums heart. Can anyone give any insight please? Just to add as well they won’t be able to visit me at all as they are poor, and my dad and brother refuse to travel and mum refuses to leave them.

Mum was worried when I first starting dating someone from another country and said from day 1 “please don’t emigrate.”

Am I a selfish cow?

That is very reassuring, thank you. I’ve always worried about having to take him in during an emergency whilst waiting for services to step in. I have had brother for an overnight visit once, 24 hours and it was incredibly stressful and he left my house in a state, locked himself in the bathroom for hours on end stimming and didn’t say 2 words to me the entire time. I couldn’t imagine doing it with kids around.

I’m glad to hear these emergency placements exist.

Goodness me I haven’t half thought-dumped and word-vomited on this thread!

I think it’s stuff that’s been building up for a while. I’ve got free time at the moment due to being off sick with morning sickness hence why I’m obsessively posting haha.

It’s given me clarity being able to express everything here and we’ve officially decided we’re going to prepare to go.

GO

I don't know why a lot of people on the thread seem to think that nobody in Germany speaks English. More than they think will, and you'll be picking up German yourself in next to no time. I would love to live in Germany, but our roots are a little too deep here.

Live your own life. It sounds like your parents just assume that you will pick up the pieces once things break apart. Hopefully this will give them the boot up the backside they need. Expect the guilt trip to be laid on thick, but you need to do what is best for you.

Besides, it's not like the UK won't be here if it doesn't work out.

Just saw your advice about memrise, so thanks, I'll check them out.

I've just signed up for Memrise German too 😁

And me! 😛

Having read some of your subsequent posts, I can fully understand why you want to step away from your parents and put yourself first. They sound awful. I'm sure their nastiness, racist behaviour and assumptions that you will care for them and your brother, without them taking any responsibility for themselves at all has pushed you away.
Live your own life. It sounds as if you and your DP have made a more long term, workable plan now. The UK has deteriorated so much over many years and is a very difficult place for young people to forge a life now. I'm not sure Germany is necessarily much better; their economy is deteriorating very fast now due to political decisions. In my experience, European cities do tend to be much cleaner and more pleasant with better transport than British ones though.

Depending on the industry look at Bremen too. Really nice city and the airport is a tram ride. Much cheaper than Hamburg. Bremerhaven has extremely rough areas. Cuxhaven is on the coast and the area nice, though have been there as a visitor.

In some areas there are not enough Kindergarten places. This is a problem across Germany.

And best of luck to have a fantastic time.

This! I have considered a move myself for personal reasons, so I'm not anti-moving

But I do think bashing the UK without any nuance is wrong, unfair, and overlooks that by a lot of measures the UK is as good as or better than many Euro countries. There are growing problems all over the world for various reasons: populism, aging populations, poor politicians, financial issues etc : these are not unique to UK.

I agree re the German economy. Germany had lots of good things but there's unfortunately been serious issues which have led people to (wrongly) too often flock to AFD (among other motives)

It's also worth noting there is worry over Putin in Germsny & they don't have the sea protection we have. Unlikely he'd try to directly invade them though.

Great post. Yes, I think in Poland some nationalists are keen on the idea of Poland being the 'protector from Muslim countries' now just as Poland 'saved Vienna' from Ottomans (it did but obviously not single handed). I can see that being a lot stronger in Hungary.

Re gypsies : there are serious problems like refusal of education but otoh afaik online many Romanians seem to discount entirely when explaining to outsiders that gypsies were mostly slaves, ( including many by the Orthodox church!) until mid-19th century. It's no excuse ofc but it does add context to current problems, especially as little wax done to integrate freed slaves as in US, to some extent.

Tbf if OP is anti -Brexit, populism etc then Giorgia Meloni's current leadership would probably make Italy not ideal.

This

OP, one idea I've seen suggested is to change your phone/laptop/SatNav settings to the language you want to learn. It does help!

Start German straight away - go slowly and listen to the sounds.

The issues with the German economy are in v large part due to the politicians deciding to take such a strong anti Russian stance and stop buying Russian gas! Economic suicide! The AFD are more pro Russian. The Remigration policies are scary though. Having said that, Germany is clearly not the only country that is getting fed up with the levels of immigration. It's clearly the case in the UK, US and many other countries for various reasons. There are clearly racist elements, of course, but another factor is economic hardship.
Putin has no plans to invade Germany. This is just politicians and the media trying to hype up the threat to justify spending billions of $$$ on weapons, etc, etc to continue the awful war.

My mum is a textbook narcissist and also said this to me when I was young. When my husband got the chance to transfer to USA with his company, her dramatics went to such a level that I couldn’t bring myself to go. I’ve regretted it ever since and vowed I would never treat my children this way (not that I would as I’m not a narcissist!).

Both of our kids got their degrees and moved away as the opportunities available elsewhere made it madness not to. One is in Canada and the other in Japan. Both have amazing lives and we have amazing places to visit 🤷🏼‍♀️. Do I miss them? Of course but, and this is the only bit that really matters, it’s their lives, not mine!! At 55 now, I’ve (stupidly) made many of my life choices based on the reactions of a controlling, dramatic, manipulative parent. I resent her for it and only have myself to blame.

Live your life on what’s best for you and your partner/kids, no one else. If you move to Germany and it doesn’t work out, you can come back but if you don’t go, you’ll always wonder what could have been. Good luck.

I never understand parents who put their own feelings before their kids, my own mother was the same and it's so hard to shake off the sense of guilt/obligation it creates. But your parents/brother are not your responsibility OP and your mother should never have made you feel that they are. All I want for my DC is for them to be happy, where is your mother's concern for your happiness OP? The fact that she would rather guilt you into staying and being miserable while you run around after her and your brother means you don't have to consider her feelings when making decisions about your life, she doesn't put you first so you will have to look after yourself, absolutely go!

If it helps with the guilt, remember that giving them a short sharp shock now may be good for them in the long term.

They’re only in their 60s, still able to manage independently and arrange their own affairs. Giving them a really pointed message that you will not be looking after any of them in future gives them time and a push to sort out their long term plans.

My difficult parents and disabled sibling have a similar approach - they are completely burying they heads in the sand, refusing to make any plans for the future. They’re older (late 70s) and my sibling could not live independently even for a day. They also have pets and a very cluttered house.

So essentially we are one accident away from disaster - it’s entirely plausible that if one of my parents had a stroke the other would have a heart attack from the shock, and I’d suddenly be dealing with hospital and nursing home admissions and supported living for all 3 of them, which will be horrific for my sibling who has never lived away from them, and finding new homes for the pets, and clearing 40 years of crap from their house while also giving each of them their treasured possessions and distributing the things they’ve promised to other family members and friends, then redecorating it so it has a chance to sell.

They know they’re leaving me with this awful (potential) mess, but have chosen to ignore it and now realistically it’s too late for them to manage the process.

Your parents sound much the same: now think of what a disaster it would be if that kind of mess happens for you in ten years - when you’ll (hopefully) have a few kids, and a proper career, and your own life. You wouldn’t actually be physically able to do everything for them, but they wouldn’t have made any other plans.

Much better to make it crystal clear now that you will not be available. Let them be upset. Empathise, discuss, remind them how wonderful WhatsApp and FaceTime etc are and that actually Hamburg is an easy trip. But stick to your guns that you are going, and that you should not feature at all in any of their future plans for support.

These points and others I can think of. You aren’t married, so what’s your security?You and partner are from different countries so rules for permanent residency might be different. Your child will be British? You don’t speak the language. Are you good at learning languages? Lots of research to do other than fantasising about a whole new life of perfection. When all of the important details about emigrating are researched you can decide if you want to move permanently and that your chosen country would accept you.

My grandfather lived near Hamburg. He was British. 100% go. Ditch your parents expectations and live your own life. Hopefully it will force them to start making plans for your brother.

My Dad has a half brother who is autistic. His mum died a couple of years ago. She failed to get him diagnosed and that's added to issues. He won't go through the process.

He lives 5hrs from my Dad. Frankly it would be easier for my parents to visit if he lived in Hamburg. He isn't coping. My Dad is struggling and can't handle phone calls with him anymore so my Mum does. He doesn't cook, he doesn't have a job, he's refusing to sell the house, he doesn't clean, he panics when a light bulb needs changing. They are waiting for it to hit crisis so social services end up getting involved because there's nothing more they can do. They don't want to move to the back end of nowhere in their 70s.

He's only two years older than me though so there is a world in which I become next of kin and my son could even become NoK. My parents have told me to not make contact as they absolutely do not want me to have that burden. They actively say it shouldn't be my responsibility and they only take on a limited amount because they recognise the limitations of their own situation and that they they can't care for him. They recognise there has to be a long term plan eventually.

You are allowed to have your own life. There is an element here of you running away from your family here, and seeing Hamburg as an unrealistic utopia but honestly under the circumstances it absolutely is a better option even if it's not all what you expect.

It's a mental and physical barrier to the emotional coercion your parents are trying to impose. You have your own responsibilities. They are abdicating their own by not making provision for your brother.

OP, both your posting style and your black-and-white, slightly obsessive way of thinking plus your family history leads me to believe that you are very likely to be neurodivergent as well as your brother. In my experience, this will work both for and against you with this plan.

But if you're anything like me (also neurodivergent and have moved to several different countries under far more trying circumstances than your situation) you have a good likelihood of making it work.

A good friend told me before we made our first move that high functioning neurodiverse people have grown up with a sense of not fitting into their own society, which brings massive internal stresses. They are often the people who thrive best by moving to a society where it is a given that they don't actually fit in. Everyone knows from the start that they are an outsider, but they put it down to them being foreigners rather than neurodiversity, which massively reduces the need for that person to mask.

In my case, she was spot on. Some of the other things that went in my favour were the fact that, like you, from what you say in your posts, I don't easily make lots of friends and develop a large support system wherever I go. I am much more likely to make a few close friends, which always takes time. In the meantime, I'm more than happy with my own company and have been able to weather quite long periods of isolation and loneliness during some of our more difficult moves.

Please don't take any of this as a negative. It really isn't meant to be. I believe that when you make this move you will have a honeymoon period, followed by being slapped in the face by cold, hard reality because that's what happens to everyone who moves abroad. But it sounds as though you are well placed and motivated to weather that, so I would say give it a go and good luck to you all.

The other thing about neurodiversity is that we do tend to fixate on things. Sometimes we need to take a step back and find a way not to do that. But it's also good to recognise that it can cause us unnecessary internal pain not to give those things a try if there's no real reason not to. If this move doesn't work out for you for any reason, you will have developed extra resilience and coping strategies for whatever comes next. Life is short. Make sure you live it on your terms.

OP, at first reading this I thought you were living through very rose-tinted glasses, but honestly thinking about it as if it were myself, I reckon if you didn’t go you would always regret it and it would always be a “what if I had done this” thought in the back of your mind.

There is always a chance living in Germany could fail, as others have said, but there is nothing saying that once you move to Germany you can’t ever move back to the UK (yes, that would be a pain but not the end of the world!)

I’m glad you’ve decided to go, but I’d say don’t rush things too much and add unnecessary stress on top of being pregnant.

But I agree 100% on learning the language right away and think watching tv in German (Netflix etc) or even just YouTube videos you could catch basic things up pretty quick. Perhaps you could rewatch movies or tv shows you know well, but in German? That way you’d have some sort of comparison?

Also just wondering but maybe there are online groups you could join of people looking to emigrate to Germany in order to possibly find some friends before going?

Do it OP

You may not stay forever but will regret taking an opportunity wondering “what if?”

Germany is not far, I would think of ‘emigrating’ referring to Canada (out of the possible countries you mentioned), not going to live in Europe.

I had all this and had to sort out nursing homes, clear their council house of 35 years of stuff and get my brother in supported living. It nearly
broke me and without my lovely husband helping me I don’t think I would have coped. House had to be emptied by a certain date and we were doing it in the snow and freezing weather. On tenterhooks regarding timing getting brother into place he needed to go. Waiting acceptance on state funded nursing / residential homes as places are scarce for two people one who needed nursing care. Plus they didn’t have much money so it had to be council funded. It was an absolute nightmare and my skin, hair and mental health bore the brunt. I love my mum and dad but have never been close to my brother. I did feel obligated to sort it out though. Just wish they’d put things in place earlier and my mum hadn’t wrapped my brother in cotton wool. Don’t be like me make sure they start the process now even if it’s just declutter the house.