To emigrate knowing it will devastate my mum?

[tangotingo]

I’m breaking my heart over this as I know deep down I want to go but it will break my mum’s heart.

Been with my partner 4 years, we are engaged to be married next year. I’m pregnant with our first baby. I’m British, partner is from Eastern Europe and his family have settled all over the place (he has relatives in Canada, his home country, Germany and Scandinavia).

His younger sister lives in Germany and has lived there a few years now. She has a partner. They are settled in a lovely small town there which is very safe. They only work hospitality jobs there but have a lower cost of living - they live off one partner’s wage and save the rest. They are considering moving to Hamburg for more job opportunities. They are at a very similar age and life stage to us and are also expecting their first baby. There is a particular industry in Hamburg which is very big and similar to what my partner does for work in the UK, don’t want to go into more detail as it’s quite niche but we’ve seen that one particular large firm encourages foreigners to apply if they have a relevant skillset. I would struggle a bit more as my skills are administrative/customer service so I’d likely end up being a stay-at-home parent whilst learning German. My job in the UK is only a call centre role so it’s not like I’d be giving up a career, so I’m willing to do it so long as we can afford to live. Partner’s sister is confident you can live on one wage over there, and also says she knows a firm that is easy to get into without speaking German as she has helped friends from her own country get in there, so she says she could help us get in their initially if we wanted whilst we’re settling.

I feel, probably quite selfishly, that there is nothing for me in the UK. My parents had me in their 40s, I’m in my 20s now and they are in their 60s. They are full-time carers to my autistic brother who is 25 and they refuse to take any steps to prepare him for the fact that they won’t always be around. He is verbal but doesn’t work, he doesn’t even have a mobile phone as he refuses one and they just accept it. My dad is a hoarder and I hate visiting their home as it stresses me out. I have half-siblings on my dad’s who are 20 years older than me and don’t care about me despite my efforts to have a relationship (I’ve attempted to meet them on their birthdays etc to not even receive a text on mine).

I have dealt with so much anxiety over the years about how care for my parents and brother is likely to all fall on to me in the future as my parents age (my half siblings have no interest). I live an hour drive away as when I met my partner I moved to a different city to be with him. We can’t move to my parent’s city as my partner’s industry doesn’t exist there. I feel absolutely stifled by thoughts of the future. Due to my parents age and being carers they won’t be able to offer me any practical support with my baby. Since I moved an hour away 3 years they’ve visited me less than a handful of times.

Due to large age gaps with my siblings and the fact that my partner has no family in the UK, my child will have no cousins to grow up with except for kids my partner’s sister will have in Germany. I recently have been crying my eyes out as I’ve realised nobody in my family deserves to be godparents to my child, nobody gives a shit enough. We’ve already decided godparents will be partners sister and her partner.

Me and my partner are so lonely and desperate to be around people in a similar life stage. He was quite depressed his last birthday as it fell during a heatwave and he wanted to have a BBQ and realised there was just nobody to really invite so we didn’t bother. It’s getting to him now we’re having a child I think.

Our part of the UK is incredibly rough and our car was stolen a few months ago. I hate the UK rainy grey weather and get seasonal depression, I know Germany is hardly a hot country but the UK is particularly bad due to being an island and we’ve enjoyed many lovely summer BBQs and outdoor parties when visiting Germany previously. I’ve always said no to my partner when he’s suggested moving as I feel bad leaving my parents, but since becoming pregnant I’ve started to want to prioritise baby more and I feel they will be better off if we go to Germany. I only really want 1 child but feel pressure to have 2 if we stay in the UK as I feel the child will be lonely, but it’s different if they will have cousins which they will have in Germany. My, my partner, my partner’s sister and her partner will all be able to support each other.

We have the money to emigrate and get settled - £25,000 in savings. This was originally meant to be a house deposit in the UK but every time we’ve found a home we’ve had to pull out due to the house having major damp issues. Every house in our budget is awful and requires major renovation works. We’ve essentially given up.

I have decided I want to go, I know it won’t be easy to find a rental and jobs etc but I want to at least start the process even if it takes a couple of years. Due to my partner’s EU citizenship I can tag along with him to get residency. I think it’s best for me, my partner and the baby. But I know it will break my mums heart. Can anyone give any insight please? Just to add as well they won’t be able to visit me at all as they are poor, and my dad and brother refuse to travel and mum refuses to leave them.

Mum was worried when I first starting dating someone from another country and said from day 1 “please don’t emigrate.”

Am I a selfish cow?

Trains aren't great now - everyone complains about them

"you do have rose tinted specs on. You don't speak German and will be at home with a new baby in a country where you have only your partner's sister as support. You won't be able to make any new mum friends as you don't speak the language, you won't have a job. Your partner will be off at work every day. I think you run a high risk of being very lonely and isolated, and even more miserable than you are now.
Fix your life here, why don't either of you have friends, why are you living somewhere you dislike? You are just running from one problem to another."

Take note - you are idealising life in Germany and glossing over the fact that not speaking the language will make it very difficult to make real friendships. You said that moving to a different city interrupted your friendships - a different country would be far harder! And without a job you may find that £25,000 would not last long - when you said you had the money to emigrate I thought you meant far more (and what about maternity pay - are you more likely to qualify in your current job than in Germany?).

I wonder if a big part of this is not wanting to care for your parents and your brother (which is understandable) - maybe you could focus your efforts on trying to get him the help he needs - supported accommodation by the sound of it. This may be more useful than just running away from the problem.
Maybe try to develop another interest of your own too, and you might be a bit less lonely.

Our children our through us NOT of us (Khalil Gibran) Go and live your life.

Take it from me. I was born to look after my mother in life and her old age.

I ensured my children were and have not been tied to the same.

I have 4 - 3 of them live abroad. 1 has stayed near me, happily married with children etc I must admit to being quietly relieved about however it is his life.

He would go abroad (I don't blame him) however my DiL, would not go abroad.

It's down to your parents. Nothing stopping you coming home and staying in an AirBnB for a few days once or twice a year.

Me I have 3 cheap holidays per year and travel I will continue too until I can't.

We are so lucky to live in a time of WhatsApp video call, FB messenger, and Zoom, etc. and you can stay in touch, and your children can know their grandparents that way. I have 2 grandchildren who live abroad end 3 in the U.K

Go and be happy

It’s not her problem at all. The responsibility for that lies entirely with her parents, not OP.

She doesn’t like living in the UK. She doesn’t have to like the UK. She has a greater family support system in Germany.

I think some people might not know lacking the language doesn't have to be a barrier.

@tangotingo to answer some questions:

1. re language- immersion is a really efficient way of learning. It’s how we all learn our native language. You just have to put yourself in situations where you have to use it. Then watch your own brain assimilate and produce language for you.
2. if you don’t return to your employer after mat leave, you may have to repay your mat pay. I think there’s a minimum time you have to work to avoid being on the hook for it.
3. i would be more tempted to just go, and throw yourselves into it, than be half-arsed about it. If it doesn’t work out, you deal with that problem when it arises.

Go, sooner, rather than later & don't look back. Good luck, with the new baby, go & make wonderful memories.

After moving to Germany myself many years ago and having my daughter recently in Berlin, I’d say go and don’t look back. It sounds like a wonderful opportunity to create a lovely life for your little family. You will not regret it one bit. I left my parents in the UK which was tough as I’m close to my mum but I still would not change my decision for a second.

Good luck to you, hoping for the best for you all

You should do it. My favourite saying is 'You're here for a good time not a long time'. Germany is not that far away and can easily be commuted by plane when needs be or when you fancy a trip home.

Life is too short to be unhappy, believe me as a 63 year old mother of two. My situation is different from yours, I have lived abroad a lot in my lifetime, Germany, Scotlalnd, Bermuda and pretty much all over the UK. You must put yourself first in this instance. Our relatives were gutted that we moved abroad but then they were made up when they realised that some lovely holidays were to be had and were able to spend quality time together rather than the obligatory visits each week. Additionally you are not that far away in Germany that you can't go home at a moments notice. Please don't be emotionally 'bullied' into staying put.

I know you mean well with this comment but that just isn’t going to help me.

£25,000 is plenty is initially get set up in a country IMO. Language is by far the main problem but people learn and overcome it. We would be realistic in that we might have to work basic jobs for a while and it might be a bit tight. I haven’t said we’re going tomorrow, but we want to start the process. It doesn’t necessarily have to be Hamburg, we can go anywhere in Europe but it is likely to be Germany. We want to priority safety for our baby and quality of life.

I have been disillusioned with the UK for many years and I just don’t see myself being here forever. In my partner’s country it’s very normal for people to go elsewhere for a better life, people do it and adjust. I’ve always desired to move to mainland Europe long before my partner but had all but given up due to Brexit and due to my qualifications being in a sector which is notoriously hard to get established in. If I could go back to uni I’d do something more practical but I don’t want to pay out of pocket for tuition fees etc.

Focusing on supporting my brother is the exact opposite of what I want. I’ve already tried warning my parents they need to get him used to the idea of outside support and they just don’t bother. I haven’t visited them in weeks due to having morning sickness which is triggered by the state of their house (dad is a hoarder). Despite being retired and living an hour away, and having a car, they have not offered to visit once. They only come here when they want me to look after their dog. They are full of empty promises.

Focusing my energy into supporting my brother would be a nightmare and miserable for me. He has mental health issues on top of the autism. I want to focus my energy on my partner, my baby and our life. It’d be easier to make the jump with a portable baby who will pick up languages easier than with a 5 year old.

I always thought that once I get pregnant I’d end up wanting to stay in the UK but the opposite has happened. I’m feeling even more of a pull to go. Seeing how well my friend has done having moved to another German speaking country (which is another place we would consider moving to) alone with a child, without knowing the language encourages me even more. She had a friend to support her for the first few weeks and we would have that with DP’s sister, who, as I say, has connections which would help us get a job to start out with.

By law when you move to and whenever you move within Germany you have to register with the local council within two weeks.
There is a bit of paperwork required for this, including a "Wohnungsgeberbescheinigung" which is a confirmation from your landlord that you actually do live at this address.

You wrote that you are planning to rent an Air BnB for a few weeks. Make sure you can use the property to register there. Most Air BnBs won't allow that.

As someone mentioned upthread, many German rentals come without a kitchen so you might have to budget for that, too. Appliances like a washing machine are also not provided. I was lucky that my flat came with a kitchen and the previous tenant had left me his washing machine which tided me over until I could buy a new one.

You have to do what’s right for you - you will regret living for other people Germany is not far

Yeh deffo agree in regards to language immersion. I learnt loads of my partners language when around his family members.

My 4 months of enhanced mat pay would indeed need to be paid back if I didn’t go back for a full year after my mat leave ends. But the statutory pay would not need to be paid back. I wouldn’t go back to my job for a year just to avoid paying back a few grand, it’d be a false economy as we’d fork out that much in childcare. We’ll just put it aside and give it back when needed. We have a “baby fund” separate from the £25,000 we are using to emigrate for initial purchases such as pram, cot etc. We wouldn’t bother decorating a nursery given we may move.

We’d consider spending some time in Germany during my mat leave depending on how I respond to postpartum I’m and whether I’m up to it.

We’ll try to learn the language as much as we can but there will come a point where we would need to take the plunge and go, so to speak. Unfortunately neither of us are in the sort of company where an opportunity for international transfer will ever happen, so we’ll be starting from scratch.

Go, OP. Honestly, just go. I've read most of the thread and all of your answers. I think you already know that it's your best life-choice.
Yes, it'll be a slog to learn German from a standing start and you'll need to get up to Level B1 to apply for citizenship - but it'll be so worth doing.
Hamburg is a lovely city, from what I've seen of it, and looks like a great place to live.

You'll live a much better life over there, from all sorts of angles. Go. Good luck.

Op you say german eve classes dont work with work schedule have you tried online classes or putting an ad on fb or something locally asking if abyone can tutor you locally? Im sure even a good a level student cpuld help you start. You should start this weekend. Honestly even if you dont go then knowledge isnt lost. Im sure waterstones have the modern equivalent of audio tapes. Its just you might find it takes longer and is harder than you think. You have literally already decided you are going so start prepping!!!
also on maternity leave you could read up on social care rules virw some care homes etc for brother and parents. That day will come and be harder with a child.
i wish you luck and please use your baby to go to baby classes ans make new friends. You will need them

Also just to add as well, MIL is in her late 50s in a Scandinavian country and has really struggled with the language, possibly due to her age. Even she found a housekeeping gig in a hotel there within a few weeks. It is of course minimum wage, and not ideal for someone her age with a back problem, but she still found something. Her partner (also from DP’s home country) speaks a very broken version of the local language but works as a tradesman’s assistant. They have an apartment and can afford their living costs.

It will be a bit more complex for us as I’ll be limited to working during childcare opening times, but I do think we could make it work if we can just crack that nut of getting a first job, even if it is a job that would be considered to be a bit “crappy”. I think what would limit us is being picky about jobs, I of course can’t expect to be an assistant psychologist without knowing the language just because I have a degree in it. Similarly, DP can’t expect to suddenly be offered a job at the port just because that’s what he did in the UK. It would be incredibly entitled to have that attitude.

You sound like an amazing young lady who has her head screwed on , you are clearly intelligent and have thought about your future . Move with your partner to Germany , try it out , you are young enough to take risks . Please have no guilt , your parents made their own decisions for their life’s, soon you will have a baby , they and your partner are your priority now.

I am in my late 40’s but my children are very young . I want them to live , experience everything life has to offer , thrive , make mistakes . I will not hinder them . It’s my job to give them the skills to leave and succeed . I wish you the very best and whatever happens or road you take I think you will both do great. You have such a can do attitude !! don’t ever lose that . Bless you ❤️

I'd say the majority of people who are saying that you'll find it really hard to make friends in a country where you don't speak the language haven't tried it. I moved to a Central European country several years ago and my knowledge of the local language was basic. I got a job teaching English pretty easily (I don't have a TEFL qualification either) and made very good friends with colleagues there who are still my friends now. I think many people will be happy to speak to you in English and will be glad of the free practice! Obviously it will be an advantage to learn German (and it will be much easier to do when you're there hearing it around you every day), but I don't think it's the barrier that some think it is.

On that note, perhaps with your experience working with people, offering English conversation lessons could be a good and flexible way to make some extra cash? Teaching obviously isn't for everyone, but it could be something to think about!

Only just read this, and seen most of the negative replies. FWIW, I think you should go. Yes, your Mum may well be devastated, but reading about your family relationships, I think you'd be happier in the long run moving to Germany. Good Luck

Thank you! I think it could be an initial slog with potential brilliant long-term gains for our baby.

Whereas the thought of staying here just seems like an eternal slog, haha.

Also to those asking, I’d happily send child to kindergarten before 6.

I have problems with the UK school and nursery system from personal experiences and that of family. My auntie who is a teacher regularly gets assaulted by 4 year old children in her primary school class, and this is in a “naice” area. This is due to the lack of appropriate SEN provision for those children.

It's the best thing for you. Don't let anyone make you feel guilty for that

The one thing I wouldn't do is move because your sister in law is there. She could move again, leaving you behind. Her life might change in ways that mean she has less time for you. She might work more or change patterns, kids get busy with outside activities. I would take the out of the equation. Would you still want to go if SIL wasn't there?

Definitely go - if you don't like it move again!