To emigrate knowing it will devastate my mum?

[tangotingo]

I’m breaking my heart over this as I know deep down I want to go but it will break my mum’s heart.

Been with my partner 4 years, we are engaged to be married next year. I’m pregnant with our first baby. I’m British, partner is from Eastern Europe and his family have settled all over the place (he has relatives in Canada, his home country, Germany and Scandinavia).

His younger sister lives in Germany and has lived there a few years now. She has a partner. They are settled in a lovely small town there which is very safe. They only work hospitality jobs there but have a lower cost of living - they live off one partner’s wage and save the rest. They are considering moving to Hamburg for more job opportunities. They are at a very similar age and life stage to us and are also expecting their first baby. There is a particular industry in Hamburg which is very big and similar to what my partner does for work in the UK, don’t want to go into more detail as it’s quite niche but we’ve seen that one particular large firm encourages foreigners to apply if they have a relevant skillset. I would struggle a bit more as my skills are administrative/customer service so I’d likely end up being a stay-at-home parent whilst learning German. My job in the UK is only a call centre role so it’s not like I’d be giving up a career, so I’m willing to do it so long as we can afford to live. Partner’s sister is confident you can live on one wage over there, and also says she knows a firm that is easy to get into without speaking German as she has helped friends from her own country get in there, so she says she could help us get in their initially if we wanted whilst we’re settling.

I feel, probably quite selfishly, that there is nothing for me in the UK. My parents had me in their 40s, I’m in my 20s now and they are in their 60s. They are full-time carers to my autistic brother who is 25 and they refuse to take any steps to prepare him for the fact that they won’t always be around. He is verbal but doesn’t work, he doesn’t even have a mobile phone as he refuses one and they just accept it. My dad is a hoarder and I hate visiting their home as it stresses me out. I have half-siblings on my dad’s who are 20 years older than me and don’t care about me despite my efforts to have a relationship (I’ve attempted to meet them on their birthdays etc to not even receive a text on mine).

I have dealt with so much anxiety over the years about how care for my parents and brother is likely to all fall on to me in the future as my parents age (my half siblings have no interest). I live an hour drive away as when I met my partner I moved to a different city to be with him. We can’t move to my parent’s city as my partner’s industry doesn’t exist there. I feel absolutely stifled by thoughts of the future. Due to my parents age and being carers they won’t be able to offer me any practical support with my baby. Since I moved an hour away 3 years they’ve visited me less than a handful of times.

Due to large age gaps with my siblings and the fact that my partner has no family in the UK, my child will have no cousins to grow up with except for kids my partner’s sister will have in Germany. I recently have been crying my eyes out as I’ve realised nobody in my family deserves to be godparents to my child, nobody gives a shit enough. We’ve already decided godparents will be partners sister and her partner.

Me and my partner are so lonely and desperate to be around people in a similar life stage. He was quite depressed his last birthday as it fell during a heatwave and he wanted to have a BBQ and realised there was just nobody to really invite so we didn’t bother. It’s getting to him now we’re having a child I think.

Our part of the UK is incredibly rough and our car was stolen a few months ago. I hate the UK rainy grey weather and get seasonal depression, I know Germany is hardly a hot country but the UK is particularly bad due to being an island and we’ve enjoyed many lovely summer BBQs and outdoor parties when visiting Germany previously. I’ve always said no to my partner when he’s suggested moving as I feel bad leaving my parents, but since becoming pregnant I’ve started to want to prioritise baby more and I feel they will be better off if we go to Germany. I only really want 1 child but feel pressure to have 2 if we stay in the UK as I feel the child will be lonely, but it’s different if they will have cousins which they will have in Germany. My, my partner, my partner’s sister and her partner will all be able to support each other.

We have the money to emigrate and get settled - £25,000 in savings. This was originally meant to be a house deposit in the UK but every time we’ve found a home we’ve had to pull out due to the house having major damp issues. Every house in our budget is awful and requires major renovation works. We’ve essentially given up.

I have decided I want to go, I know it won’t be easy to find a rental and jobs etc but I want to at least start the process even if it takes a couple of years. Due to my partner’s EU citizenship I can tag along with him to get residency. I think it’s best for me, my partner and the baby. But I know it will break my mums heart. Can anyone give any insight please? Just to add as well they won’t be able to visit me at all as they are poor, and my dad and brother refuse to travel and mum refuses to leave them.

Mum was worried when I first starting dating someone from another country and said from day 1 “please don’t emigrate.”

Am I a selfish cow?

If you go to Germany 3 times a year you've surely already picked up a bit of the language already? I don't really know why you don't start learning now or haven't started already as you go there often. There are plenty of opportunities to learn, including online courses, which could suit your shift patterns.
I also think you need to start trying to learn it now to see whether you can learn it or not. Some people really struggle with learning languages despite their best intentions.

@tangotingo is that a similar style language

No, completely different unfortunately. Partner might be ok as his sister can connect him to people working in the area who have his language but this wouldn’t be any use to me.

I lived in Slovakia for 5 years. I arrived with no Slovak at all, which was OK as I worked for an International School. I had lessons while there but mostly picked up the language naturally. I was never fluent but learned enough to shop, order in restaurants, give directions, etc. I found that a lot of people spoke English and were delighted when I tried to speak Slovak -they would be patient, try and help, etc.
I definitely recommend living in another country, it was a great, positive experience for me.

My (EU citizen) friend moved to Leipzig to be with her German partner as he'd have better job opportunities there. They'd previously lived together for years (in a different country), great couple, solid relationship, all fine and dandy.

Then their child was born, and suddenly her partner realised fatherhood wasn't his calling, after all, and dumped my friend when baby was 3 months old.

Granted, this was extreme and being married would give you some protection. But my friend has been stuck in Germany for nearly 10 years now, as she can't take the child out of the country permanently. The first years were horrendous. She did some freelance work, struggled with the language, could only afford a tiny flat in a not-so-nice part of town, had no support network at all. She used to dread taking the child to the doctor because of the language barrier (doctor spoke English, but overall she wasn't made to feel particularly welcome).

As I said, extreme case and all that, but as has been pointed out by multiple previous posters, please go into it with your eyes wide open. The weather in Hamburg won't be so excitingly different from the UK. If you're lonely now, you'll likely feel even more isolated being a SAHM in a different country. Your partner's sister may be the loveliest woman, but she'll be busy with her own kid and family, and living close to each other might not be all you've built it up to be.

Three weeks a year on holiday is one thing (alnost everywhere is nice enough when you're on holiday), living there permanently will be quite another.

This idea might be madness, please tell me if it is but I’d like opinions of others.

Payer has suggested it may be worth going whilst I’m still on paid maternity leave. I get 4 months enhanced mat leave 5 months stat, but enhanced will need to be paid back if I don’t return to the role so let’s assume 9 months stat pay.

If we go when I’m 4 months into mat leave, we’d have 5 months remaining where we’d still have a bit of income coming in from the UK. This would mean going about a year from now (I’m still first trimester). We’d use our savings to book an AirBandB type place for a few months initially (we expect this would be about £6000 gone from our £20,000 savings), and use my mat leave money (£700 monthly approx) for food costs, baby costs, any fees etc. It would be our only opportunity to go whilst still receiving some sort of UK income.

DP would throw himself into getting a job, speak to connections through his sister and join communities for speakers of his language in the city (of which there is a very large workforce). DP is also happy to get a runaround car (or bring our UK car) to something like delivery driving to supplement our first few months there.

I would look after baby and continue learning the language and attempt to immerse myself.

We’d continue paying rent on our UK place as wouldn’t want to give that up until DP has a job which would deplete our savings a bit more. We would then re-evaluate after the 5 months once I no longer am getting any income and see whether staying is realistic or not.

OP you're going to need to pull your finger out language wise. Netflix etc programmes many have German subtitles. Start watching them. Put in headphones and learn the language through the teaching websites. Repeat the words to yourself.

Yes, it would be complete madness to add the stress of emigration to a culture with which you're both unfamiliar, living in temporary accommodation while also paying rent in the UK, in a language you don't either of you speak, to being a first-time parent with a very new baby (which will incur its own expenses).

OP, I mean this kindly, it is not wise to bring undue stress into your system when you are pregnant or immediately post partum.

Your body is going through so much change and adjustment. New motherhood is wonderful but it is also a steep learning curve for both you as an individual and for your relationship.

What is the rush? (Genuine question)

Why can't you slow down a little and let your partner secure a job from here? Give yourselves time to learn the language and get married?

I can see why you want to go, with your family being a big "push" factor and your SIL being a big "pull" factor, but go with your head screwed on and arrange things to be as low risk as possible. Posters aren't trying to rain on your parade, they are just making sure you've considered various scenarios and taken any action you can to be in a strong position.

Having lived in Romania I had a chuckle at this. Spend any time there and you come across hostility towards Hungarians, fear/ suspicion of Turks ( and the widely held belief that Romanians single handedly protected Europe from the Ottoman Empire). And let’s not start on the gypsies. Re former Yugoslavia, someone once said it made the Irish look like a bunch of amnesiacs. So true.

Re former Yugoslavia, someone once said it made the Irish look like a bunch of amnesiacs. So true.

So true that British people would very evidently like Irish people to develop a convenient attack of amnesia, yes.

Paying two lots of rent and then paying back some mat pay? That sounds crazy yes. Don’t rush.

You’d probably need A level standard German as a minimum for a shop. That took me the whole of school but if you studied everything single day you could do it faster
and be conversational.

You’d probably need A level standard German as a minimum for a shop
No you really don't. German employers especial in retail are desperate for staff. Many barely speak a word let alone alone A level standard.

Feel free to misinterpret my words. The Irish have an entirely justified memory of centuries of British abuse, I’m not denying or minimising that.

Gently OP. This is your first baby. None of us has any idea when we’re pregnant for the first time what actually motherhood looks like in the first few days, weeks and months.
You will have to deal with a lot of change in a short space of time when your baby arrives. Moving to a new country on top of being a first time parent is madness, as is paying two lots of rent when no one has a job lined up.

Yes, that's utter madness.

OP - I do get why you want to leave and it sounds like Hamburg would offer you something due to the job availability for your DP. I certainly don’t think you are getting trafficked like someone suggested 😂😂

I personally don’t have the same experience as you living in the Uk and I do think that is down to area. I live in a lovely part with a great community feel and honestly love it here (I am not from the UK) so I don’t feel like all your issues are UK specific - like making friends ect but I do agree with you on the child care costs!!

whilst I think moving during Mat leave would be madness - maybe ‘try before you buy’ by spending a month or a few weeks out there…. Your partner could do interviews and you could be with estate agents to find out how much rent costs. Staying in self catering would give you an idea of how much a weekly food shop costs, travel costs ect.

be prepared that this might not be a magic bullet to solve all your problems - I don’t think Germany is known for very low cost of living

If you don’t speak German and you are starting from scratch learning a language then you could literally pick anywhere in Europe…personally there are so many other countries / areas that would be above Germany in my list:

• French mountains - proper seasons with snow in the winter and lots of sun in the summer. The need for English speakers in areas that are big for skiing is huge and you would be able to secure a non-skilled job easily because you can speak English. These areas would also be amazing to bring a child up in - VERY low crime, small communities, fresh air and lots of family based activities. The lakes are beautiful in the summer. Look into areas around Annecy or Bourg St Maurice
• Portuguese coast - sunny, very family friendly, welcoming mentality, long days and warm evenings, lots of free or cheap activities to do being by the sea
• Italy, Greece, Croatia and Spain would also all be in my list over Germany due to their weather and their more laid back welcoming mentality but I have no idea what areas would work

I would be wary pinning a whole move around your sister in law. Would you want to live in Germany above any other European country if you had the choice?

That poster didn't claim that OP's parents only had OP in order to have someone to care for their son. She said:

'What is selfish is raising a child with the expectation that they will merely exist on the planet to service your other child’s needs, and emotionally manipulating them throughout their life to accept it.'

This isn't 'My Sister's Keeper' territory where the parents had a second child to be an organ donor for her sick sister but OP's parents certainly expect OP to take on at least some of the care of her disabled sibling when they can no longer do this.

Yes deffo. Germany seems logical but we could really go anywhere. Lisbon in Portugal seems to have a few companies offering customer service roles for English speakers but minimum wage there is a pittance.

Lots to look into.

Harsh post. Unnecessarily damming of parents. Absolutely awful??????????

What makes them that?

You learn quickly once you're out there (as long as you involve yourself in local events).

In the mean time, you just need to listen to the language as much as possible.

Put aside an hour a day to do this. I suggest Duolingo (as that's quite good for learning grammar patterns, albeit with odd vocabulary) then watching a series in Netflix in German.

Start with English subtitles, then as you get better, move onto German subtitles). If you watch TV in the evening anyway, then just watch in German. I watch Netflix in both German and French. Just finished watching Ginny and Georgia in German!

If you have Spotify, there are so many German podcasts you can listen to, especially ones that are spoken slowly!

Finally, Michel Thomas CDs are good! He is really good at helping with Grammar which is tricker with German.

It might be worthwhile thinking of areas of Europe you may be interested in, like if you’d like to be in the mountains, or by lakes, or by the sea, or somewhere hot, or somewhere with four seasons. Then research towns (rather than cities) in them. Make sure there is a primary and high school in the town so that you know there will be communities of families. If you just look at cities, you may find you are moving lots of the issues you are facing in the U.K. to a different country. I have three children and of all the places we have lived (and we have lived in multiple countries, moving 10 times in the past 10 years) small towns are the ones we have found most welcoming and logistically viable as a young family.

See what you find and how it stacks up against Hamburg, and go from there. Good luck, it’s exciting to be in control of your families destiny

Please check the visa situation in depth again...to get a family reunion visa you need to be married and he has to show proof that he can take care of you financially. Depending on the visa you get when you enter Germany, you might have to go back to the UK and apply from there for the reunion visa. Certain types of visa can not be changed while you are in Germany.... What kind of visitors visa would you get as a UK citizen?

OPs partner is an EU national. They would be going under free movement law, so there would be no need for a visitor visa. If he goes and exercises his free movement rights by working, he will be entitled to have his non EU national family member with him. They don't need to be married but it's easier and comes with more rights if they are.