To emigrate knowing it will devastate my mum?

[tangotingo]

I’m breaking my heart over this as I know deep down I want to go but it will break my mum’s heart.

Been with my partner 4 years, we are engaged to be married next year. I’m pregnant with our first baby. I’m British, partner is from Eastern Europe and his family have settled all over the place (he has relatives in Canada, his home country, Germany and Scandinavia).

His younger sister lives in Germany and has lived there a few years now. She has a partner. They are settled in a lovely small town there which is very safe. They only work hospitality jobs there but have a lower cost of living - they live off one partner’s wage and save the rest. They are considering moving to Hamburg for more job opportunities. They are at a very similar age and life stage to us and are also expecting their first baby. There is a particular industry in Hamburg which is very big and similar to what my partner does for work in the UK, don’t want to go into more detail as it’s quite niche but we’ve seen that one particular large firm encourages foreigners to apply if they have a relevant skillset. I would struggle a bit more as my skills are administrative/customer service so I’d likely end up being a stay-at-home parent whilst learning German. My job in the UK is only a call centre role so it’s not like I’d be giving up a career, so I’m willing to do it so long as we can afford to live. Partner’s sister is confident you can live on one wage over there, and also says she knows a firm that is easy to get into without speaking German as she has helped friends from her own country get in there, so she says she could help us get in their initially if we wanted whilst we’re settling.

I feel, probably quite selfishly, that there is nothing for me in the UK. My parents had me in their 40s, I’m in my 20s now and they are in their 60s. They are full-time carers to my autistic brother who is 25 and they refuse to take any steps to prepare him for the fact that they won’t always be around. He is verbal but doesn’t work, he doesn’t even have a mobile phone as he refuses one and they just accept it. My dad is a hoarder and I hate visiting their home as it stresses me out. I have half-siblings on my dad’s who are 20 years older than me and don’t care about me despite my efforts to have a relationship (I’ve attempted to meet them on their birthdays etc to not even receive a text on mine).

I have dealt with so much anxiety over the years about how care for my parents and brother is likely to all fall on to me in the future as my parents age (my half siblings have no interest). I live an hour drive away as when I met my partner I moved to a different city to be with him. We can’t move to my parent’s city as my partner’s industry doesn’t exist there. I feel absolutely stifled by thoughts of the future. Due to my parents age and being carers they won’t be able to offer me any practical support with my baby. Since I moved an hour away 3 years they’ve visited me less than a handful of times.

Due to large age gaps with my siblings and the fact that my partner has no family in the UK, my child will have no cousins to grow up with except for kids my partner’s sister will have in Germany. I recently have been crying my eyes out as I’ve realised nobody in my family deserves to be godparents to my child, nobody gives a shit enough. We’ve already decided godparents will be partners sister and her partner.

Me and my partner are so lonely and desperate to be around people in a similar life stage. He was quite depressed his last birthday as it fell during a heatwave and he wanted to have a BBQ and realised there was just nobody to really invite so we didn’t bother. It’s getting to him now we’re having a child I think.

Our part of the UK is incredibly rough and our car was stolen a few months ago. I hate the UK rainy grey weather and get seasonal depression, I know Germany is hardly a hot country but the UK is particularly bad due to being an island and we’ve enjoyed many lovely summer BBQs and outdoor parties when visiting Germany previously. I’ve always said no to my partner when he’s suggested moving as I feel bad leaving my parents, but since becoming pregnant I’ve started to want to prioritise baby more and I feel they will be better off if we go to Germany. I only really want 1 child but feel pressure to have 2 if we stay in the UK as I feel the child will be lonely, but it’s different if they will have cousins which they will have in Germany. My, my partner, my partner’s sister and her partner will all be able to support each other.

We have the money to emigrate and get settled - £25,000 in savings. This was originally meant to be a house deposit in the UK but every time we’ve found a home we’ve had to pull out due to the house having major damp issues. Every house in our budget is awful and requires major renovation works. We’ve essentially given up.

I have decided I want to go, I know it won’t be easy to find a rental and jobs etc but I want to at least start the process even if it takes a couple of years. Due to my partner’s EU citizenship I can tag along with him to get residency. I think it’s best for me, my partner and the baby. But I know it will break my mums heart. Can anyone give any insight please? Just to add as well they won’t be able to visit me at all as they are poor, and my dad and brother refuse to travel and mum refuses to leave them.

Mum was worried when I first starting dating someone from another country and said from day 1 “please don’t emigrate.”

Am I a selfish cow?

My son emigrated to the US 15 years ago, when he married an American girl.

I was a bit sad, but plastered on a happy smile, and waved him off. We manage ok with phones, FaceTime, messages etc and they come over for a visit once a year, or if anyone has died etc

He's happy out there, and it’s his life to live.

Do what makes you happy.

Ideally yes, we should all take some level of responsibility for our siblings, especially if they need care. But you're an adult, so if you don't want to or don't think you should, then don't.

Totally agree.

The irony is that if parents in this situation made sensible plans for their disabled children to maximise their independence and find suitable living arrangements then it would be much less daunting for a sibling to take over. We have a similar situation in my extended family where the parents have had their heads in the clouds and a "we'll just do it ourselves" attitude except now they are elderly with their own hospitalisations and nothing in place.

How lovely that your life is enhanced by caring for your relatives. However, it is now clear that you are projecting massively, as you are a carer for your family members. It's very unfair to try and make other women feel bad because they choose to NOT be a carer and a servant to their siblings/extended family members. It works for you. Good. You are happy with it. Good. You do not have the right to tell other people they are selfish and 'wrong' for not wanting to be a carer for an extended family member.

I am not going to discuss this with you any more.

Yes I’d go in your position OP but start learning the language now and maybe do some sort of qualification now before the baby comes, so you’re more prepared and more employable in Germany. Are you planning on getting married? That may be better for you on a simply practical basis, if you’re planning on being a stay at home mother when the baby arrives.

Most children in Germany go to kindergarten from age 3 to 6 to socialise them and prepare them for school.

Just a warning if you split up. The German authorities will see your child as resident in Germany and it will be very difficult to take him/her back to UK to live.

Another warning, and the voice of experience. Don’t underestimate how isolating it can be stuck at home in a strange country with a baby when you don’t speak the language. Even if you do speak the language it can be tough. It’s difficult to make friends. I was in this situation - DH at work all day, no mother and baby groups or anything similar nearby. I ended up going to the local Anglican Church just to get some human interaction with someone who wasn’t DH once a week.

I'm older, so have seen all sorts of things play out over my lifetime. For my 2 pennies :

Pro's :

It's only 1.5 hours on a plane and flights are cheap, so it would be very easy to visit the UK, and for your parents to visit you IF they sort their shit out.
For context, my DD lives in Australia, so Hamburg seems very close by comparison.

Con's :

You don't speak the language
You're not married to your partner
50% of marriages don't last anyway - would you want to live alone in Hamburg?
Would you be able to come home with the baby, if you did break up?

Where I think you might have Rose coloured Specs :

Re your baby growing up with cousins - all well and good, but when they are adults the chances are, that they won't be close at all. I have 4 cousins. 2 are abroad and 2 live hundreds of miles away, I never see them. My own adult children have loads of cousins, they would only see them at a family event. My DH never sees his cousins either.

Re your Partners sister - if you break up, she will be on his side and drop you like a sack of spuds. I was with my Ex for 20 years and I was very close to his sisters. When we broke up, I never heard from them again.

If your parents and brothers lives do implode, I highly doubt you'll be able to just look away because you're in Hamburg. You may end up having to be in the UK a lot sorting stuff out for them.

These are some of the things I'd consider.

Overall though? My verdict would be GO, but make sure you have your eyes wide open to the things mentioned above. None of which may happen of course!

I love this saying, which I think applied here :

"The Ship is safe in the harbour, but that's not what ships are for"

You only live once. My DD is loving her life in Australia. I have settled around 6 hours from where I was born. When we moved, we said if we don't like it we will just move back. That made the decision to go a bit easier.

It is actually, as the spouse of an EU citizen from a different EU country, it is literally that easy.

She does not need a visa. People should refrain from giving advice on topics they know nothing about.

This is a no brainer. The UK is a tough place to live, especually for the young. I hope my children move away when they are older

No - it's because you come across as naive.

Working in Canada in your teens (as an au pair?) is not the same.
For a start they speak the same language and you had a job.

Your main reason for emigrating is to leave your family - that's not a good reason.

I worked in Germany as a single woman without children and I speak the language. It's still wasn't easy. Germans are reserved and slow to form friendships with others, especially outsiders.

Also, you are giving up a lot and don't appear to have considered the implications fully at all.

You both currently work and your boyfriend will be doing a similar job in Hamburg but you will not be able to work so that means your financial situation will get worse not better. Babies cost a lot of money so even if you stay put and continue working, your disposable income will take a big hit. The hit will be bigger when you move to Germany. You could easily run through your savings within a year.

Hamburg is a very expensive city and has a crime rate on a par with London. They have a major drug issue there and it's very visible on the streets, including in the city centre. It's a gigantic port with all that goes with ports including a big sex industry. It wouldn't be my choice for a city to raise a new baby unless I was from there or had a well-paid job that allowed me to live in a nice area. You need to check out the cost of renting an apartment and where you will be able to afford to rent.

What if your relationship does not survive having a child?
You could end up unemployed with a baby in a foreign country and be forced to return in very different circumstances with no job to pay rent, etc.
It's harder to find a job when you have a baby than when you don't.

Having a child is a major cause for marital breakdown because of differences in approaches to parenting or because the man leaves all or most of the childcare and housework to the woman...

Well I hope mine don't! I don't know why some people have this bizarre idea that anywhere is better than the UK. The grass isn't always greener! Every country has its problems!!!

If my DC DID want to leave, I would support them in this, and would never try to stop them, but I would be sad to see them move to another country. I think most people would feel the same. Hoping your children leave the UK and move to another country far away from you is a bizarre thing to think IMO.

That said, I do think the OP should go to Germany, to stop being used by her parents as a carer.

Thank you everyone for the constructive advice.

I might add as well, Hamburg is top of the list due to DP’s occupation and his sibling already being near there. But we could really look to go anywhere in the EU.

We’ve discussed it this morning and set a timeline of 2 years but potentially earlier.

DP’s sister wants us to settle somewhere together, unfortunately they can’t come to the UK due to Brexit but we want to leave the UK anyway.

Even though it is very likely to be Germany, does anyone have experience of moving to any other EU country without being advanced in the language?

It’s all by-the-by as it will end up being Germany but just curious.

Establishing themselves as distinct from their neighbors is definitely a significant factor, imo. There’s the same within Ukraine - as a general ‘rule’, western Ukraine, parts of which were taken from Poland and absorbed after WW2, is predominantly Ukrainian speaking and Catholic. Eastern Ukraine was/is Russian speaking and Orthodox.

There was also a religious revival when the Soviet Union collapsed, a rediscovering and reshaping of national identity.

The Balkans is…well, the Balkans. Re the former Yugoslavia, Slovenia is the most Austro-Hungarian culturally. Bosnia and Herzegovina is predominantly shaped by the Ottomans, but the you also have Republika Srpska and the majority Croatia cantons. There’s significant Venetian and Italian influence in Croatia. As a general rule, we’re united by mutual disdain, as well as the ability to hold grudges about things that happened literally hundreds of years ago. Oh, and none of us are ever wrong and our actions are always justifiable. It’s all the fault of the Croats/ the Serbs/the Turks (delete as applicable). I love the Balkans, but the Balkans can be fucking exhausting.

@tangotingo if you are not going for 2 years why can’t you start learning the language beforehand?

What languages will you be bringing up your DC to speak?

Get married first either way. You no doubt know that you can get a residence card as an unmarried partner, but it's better to be married and be a direct family member.

Not the EU, but I moved as an (older) child from Serbia to the UK. I knew some English, but was far from fluent. My school had a lot of international students, and so had an EAL department providing support.

Immersion is a crash course, and living the language is always the quickest way to learn it. IMO How difficult you’ll find it will largely depend on whether or not you have a natural affinity with languages and how much you’re prepared to dedicate yourself to learning. Availing yourself to German media will help a lot.

Hamburg is an international city, and there are a lot of resources available for those wanting to learn German. This public library hosts free conversation groups:

www.buecherhallen.de/ehrenamt-dialog-in-deutsch.html

We would be learning the language as best we can before going, we’re just waiting to decide that we’re definitely going but we’re 99% there.

Our local uni has a German evening course but it’s a bit of a pain as it doesn’t suit our work shift patterns. We’ll need to research.

I’d at least want a level of German which would allow me to work in somewhere like a supermarket before going.

Son got a job abroad. Had to liaise with builders on site Spanish and Portuguese. He was advised by the Spanish. Watch Spanish TV, programmes and news, read the papers, learn the pronunciation. You must do this daily. His Spanish friends would test him.

First, I think the idea of moving is in principal great. However (and echoing much of what has already been said), Hamburg weather will resemble Liverpool, architecture is post war - most of the central city was destroyed in WW2, and it is a big expensive city. Please note what people have said about your relationship. Finally on work and language, temp agencies here do not even interview people if they don't have minimum A2 German (exceptions for people with certain technical skills). I don't even know about permission to work for a UK national.

And seeing your comment about "the level of German ... to work in a supermarket" That would actually be higher than very basic, so the level you need for citizenship ie B1. OP, do you speak any other languages?

I speak my partners language to a moderate level.