To emigrate knowing it will devastate my mum?

[tangotingo]

I’m breaking my heart over this as I know deep down I want to go but it will break my mum’s heart.

Been with my partner 4 years, we are engaged to be married next year. I’m pregnant with our first baby. I’m British, partner is from Eastern Europe and his family have settled all over the place (he has relatives in Canada, his home country, Germany and Scandinavia).

His younger sister lives in Germany and has lived there a few years now. She has a partner. They are settled in a lovely small town there which is very safe. They only work hospitality jobs there but have a lower cost of living - they live off one partner’s wage and save the rest. They are considering moving to Hamburg for more job opportunities. They are at a very similar age and life stage to us and are also expecting their first baby. There is a particular industry in Hamburg which is very big and similar to what my partner does for work in the UK, don’t want to go into more detail as it’s quite niche but we’ve seen that one particular large firm encourages foreigners to apply if they have a relevant skillset. I would struggle a bit more as my skills are administrative/customer service so I’d likely end up being a stay-at-home parent whilst learning German. My job in the UK is only a call centre role so it’s not like I’d be giving up a career, so I’m willing to do it so long as we can afford to live. Partner’s sister is confident you can live on one wage over there, and also says she knows a firm that is easy to get into without speaking German as she has helped friends from her own country get in there, so she says she could help us get in their initially if we wanted whilst we’re settling.

I feel, probably quite selfishly, that there is nothing for me in the UK. My parents had me in their 40s, I’m in my 20s now and they are in their 60s. They are full-time carers to my autistic brother who is 25 and they refuse to take any steps to prepare him for the fact that they won’t always be around. He is verbal but doesn’t work, he doesn’t even have a mobile phone as he refuses one and they just accept it. My dad is a hoarder and I hate visiting their home as it stresses me out. I have half-siblings on my dad’s who are 20 years older than me and don’t care about me despite my efforts to have a relationship (I’ve attempted to meet them on their birthdays etc to not even receive a text on mine).

I have dealt with so much anxiety over the years about how care for my parents and brother is likely to all fall on to me in the future as my parents age (my half siblings have no interest). I live an hour drive away as when I met my partner I moved to a different city to be with him. We can’t move to my parent’s city as my partner’s industry doesn’t exist there. I feel absolutely stifled by thoughts of the future. Due to my parents age and being carers they won’t be able to offer me any practical support with my baby. Since I moved an hour away 3 years they’ve visited me less than a handful of times.

Due to large age gaps with my siblings and the fact that my partner has no family in the UK, my child will have no cousins to grow up with except for kids my partner’s sister will have in Germany. I recently have been crying my eyes out as I’ve realised nobody in my family deserves to be godparents to my child, nobody gives a shit enough. We’ve already decided godparents will be partners sister and her partner.

Me and my partner are so lonely and desperate to be around people in a similar life stage. He was quite depressed his last birthday as it fell during a heatwave and he wanted to have a BBQ and realised there was just nobody to really invite so we didn’t bother. It’s getting to him now we’re having a child I think.

Our part of the UK is incredibly rough and our car was stolen a few months ago. I hate the UK rainy grey weather and get seasonal depression, I know Germany is hardly a hot country but the UK is particularly bad due to being an island and we’ve enjoyed many lovely summer BBQs and outdoor parties when visiting Germany previously. I’ve always said no to my partner when he’s suggested moving as I feel bad leaving my parents, but since becoming pregnant I’ve started to want to prioritise baby more and I feel they will be better off if we go to Germany. I only really want 1 child but feel pressure to have 2 if we stay in the UK as I feel the child will be lonely, but it’s different if they will have cousins which they will have in Germany. My, my partner, my partner’s sister and her partner will all be able to support each other.

We have the money to emigrate and get settled - £25,000 in savings. This was originally meant to be a house deposit in the UK but every time we’ve found a home we’ve had to pull out due to the house having major damp issues. Every house in our budget is awful and requires major renovation works. We’ve essentially given up.

I have decided I want to go, I know it won’t be easy to find a rental and jobs etc but I want to at least start the process even if it takes a couple of years. Due to my partner’s EU citizenship I can tag along with him to get residency. I think it’s best for me, my partner and the baby. But I know it will break my mums heart. Can anyone give any insight please? Just to add as well they won’t be able to visit me at all as they are poor, and my dad and brother refuse to travel and mum refuses to leave them.

Mum was worried when I first starting dating someone from another country and said from day 1 “please don’t emigrate.”

Am I a selfish cow?

I know Germany very well. If I were you I'd go in a heartbeat..BUT the advice on having a baby there and not being able to move back if the relationship ends is spot on. That is the only part that would give me pause.

I say go. It's not like Australia in terms of distance which is where I am from.

besides- if it does not work out it's not like you can't come back if you want or move somewhere else.

Your parents need to live their life and allow you to live yours. Germany is easy enough to visit.

But she may not be able to move back if she wants to if her and her partner split and he doesn't consent to her taking their child back to the UK.

I would get married, learn the language and also look into some sort of work experience or training that is in demand in Hamburg. If you do split you will be very financially vulnerable otherwise.

Go go go!
new life, support, much higher standards of living. It sounds like an adventure.

Much as you love your parents, they are not doing anything to even begin to meet you halfway in terms of future proofing your brother and future proofing themselves. Your mother has mental health problems, and so does your father as I think you said he’s a hoarder.

I think you need to move away, develop some immunity to your mother’s emotional blackmail and anxiety, and accept that even if you were around helping them would be very hard. The state will help as needed. You are not responsible for your brother.

Your shoulders aren’t big enough to rescue 3 people who don’t want to be rescued

I'd bring wedding forward to give myself more protection. You should also make more effort to make friends. Join evening classes to learn German before you make the move. Don't feel guilty about moving. It is your life. You can still come home each year to visit your parents.

if you feel isolated now, imagine how you will feel
as a stay at home mum, no job, no friends, not speaking German and fully dependent on your husband

I think it’s a bit entitled to move there and plan to live off state support when neither of you are native Germans. You should concentrate on training in something here first yourself and then move as contributors.

You only have one life. You are young and have the chance to try something very different and life changing. Go for it. Immerse yourself in the culture and try really hard to learn the language. I really hope it improves your lot as it sounds really tough at the moment. Living in a rough area with hardly any friends and a job you don’t like does not sound fun.

Therefore moving to Germany will not prevent it from being less lonely than it might be in the UK.

@tangotingo not RTFT just your comments.

YANBU - go !Life is not a rehearsal - go where you think you will be happy. Reading your posts you sound dreadfully unhappy. I think this is multifactorial (economic issues, loneliness perhaps pregnancy hormones, anxiety over caring responsibilities and a wish to escape that) and if you had all these issues in the European country you’re planning to emigrate to then you’d be miserable too.

I agree with others that it may not be as easy or as wonderful as you’re hoping it to be because it does sound like you’ve completely romaticised life in the new country and the grass isn’t always greener but that isn’t a reason to not go. I would hate for fear to be a reason I didn’t do the best for my family and I and would move in a heartbeat if it would create a better life for my family and I. As others have said Western Europe is round the corner, you are planning on coming back 2-3 times a year - it’s hardly moving to the opposite side of the world. If it all goes up the shitter with all the what ifs people are throwing out there - you just move back surely?

The only thing I would suggest is perhaps helping your parents get their ducks in a row with support from social services etc if needed before you go. This is not an obligation ofc but it can be extremely difficult to navigate for most people and given how you’ve described your parents they may struggle more than most with that. I think this would make things easier as you may find yourself called upon in Germany (it does sound like your mother leans heavily on you) and if the shit really does hit the fan you may find it harder than you’re suggesting to just “leave it all to the state” to manage. Depending on the situation, community social services can be slow, arduous and if you’re not good at advocating for yourself you may not get your needs met efficiently.

You may also want to consider some therapy (perhaps after the pregnancy although perinatal mental health services are much quicker and easier to get into than any other MH service in UK) as you sound like you hold your parents in contempt and have understandably got real anger and anxiety about the family situation. I can’t imagine how hard it must have been to grow up like that, it must also have been hard for your parents too. And despite your comments about choosing to have children earlier and taking the risk - I don’t think any parent chooses to have a child that will be dependent on them lifelong - sometimes you have to play with the cards you’re dealt however cruel and it sounds like they definitely need support in getting the best outcomes for themselves and your brother and they grow older.

wishing you all the best with baby

Yes, if OP thinks UK is narrow in that way, unluckily Germany maybe is equally so...hence the AFD surge.

Please go.
You have clearly thought it through. The pre school years are the ideal time to try out living somewhere else and you could not be clearer in your reasoning.
Your parents chose to have you late in life, but that does not mean that these issues should be visited on you.
Make your life full of happiness, put down roots. With regard to brother, what would their plan have been in if you had not been born?

Why are you insulting England like that?

And are Scotland, Wales, and Ireland also dumps, too?

You DO have responsibility to your siblings, esp vulnerable ones.
But OP has said she'll advocate for him.

It does seem dramatic. How much of England has OP seen? She's only mid 20s, I think.

you will need to be married to get a family reunification visa. You don't seem to have done much research!

Op, can I ask how old you are? Mid 20s? Or older than your brother?

It's just that you talk in such a world weary way about England. I think the move is right, Hamburg sounds great.

But at the same time you seemed to have formed really damning opinions about England etc based on living in a neighbourhood let down by the government. There are neighbourhoods like that in Germany too : it's sadly a flaw all over Europe

Im not saying she shouldn't go, but so many people saying "go for it...you can just come back if it doesn't work out" aren't right.

I would say go for it, but shore up your currently very vulnerable situation first and be aware you could end up stuck there.

It's completely different emigrating with no real job prospects, unmarried and with a baby vs exploring different countries when you only have yourself to think about or if you have a job that's bringing in good money and you can provide a nice lifestyle for yourself independently.
Much more caution and planning is needed in the OPs situation that just "give it a go, you can just pop back if it doesn't pan out for you".

I did it, no regrets. My mum died and we were very close and that was hard but I’d still do it again. You have one life go and pursue your dreams ❤️

OP, I completely understand your reasons for wanting to go, but I do think you need to leave with your eyes wide open. First and foremost, get married - that gives you legal protection both there and here, and gives you more rights if the marriage does break up. Second, you say, “Once we’ve made the decision to definitely go we’ll start learning the language straight away.”. Why aren’t you starting kearn8ng the language now, even if it’s inky Duolingo? If you are serious about wanting to live in Germany, a knowledge of the language is a must, and if you start learning it and don’t go, what have you lost? If there’s anywhere local you could join a class, I’d be straight there - who knows: you might even make a friend doing it. But if you are serious aligning to Germany, start learning thr language this very morning - you can’t learn a new language ivernight, and the more you know before you go, the better.

Being very anti moving is a very white British thing, as is the view “what if you can’t learn x language” when anyone is able to learn a language.

We moved to an EU country a few years ago because my husband as an EU citizen so we could take advantage as like you OP it meant I could join him straight away. Our move happened way quicker than we thought, he applied for a few jobs just to see if he would get any interviews etc, so we actually moved about 18 months before we intended to. I spoke very very little Swedish, I started working after I think five months of moving, by then my Swedish was good enough to get by and good enough to start taking my professional exams (our professional UK quals didn’t transfer.

We moved in August 2023, so its still fairly recent, it feels like we have been here a lot longer. I start a new job at the end of the month, my Swedish is now very good, doesn’t cause any issues at work beyond having to google the odd spelling!

Like Germany its very family friendly here, childcare is readily available and cheap as it is in Germany, education is very good too.

Have a great time, and get rid of as much stuff as possible!

I do think the attitude that OP's parents were automatically selfish to have a child at 44 are overly harsh. The issue isn't having an SEN child, it's expecting OP to support them & DB without facing their issues of hoarding, gambling etc

Well, exactly. If she wants to go to Hamburg then she should absolutely go, but unless she has visited every city in the UK then how can she possibly know they are all horrific after 9pm 😂. Mine isnt, its lovely.

I just think there is a real danger in painting the UK as all bad and Hamburg as all perfect. No country is perfect- there will be poverty and crime in certain parts of all countries and all countries have nice areas and not so nice areas.

I think OP is going to be in for an almighty shock if she has put this place on a pedestal in her mind and is expecting it to be a place where the streets are paved with gold. I am quite sure Hamburg is great but the higher your expectation of something, the more you are going to be disappointed when it inevitably cannot live up to it. Also, Hamburg is one of the most expensive cities in Germany so yes, life can be great if you have loads of money but that's true in any country 🙃

You should definitely go, you sound unhappy in the UK and very fixed on moving.

But I wouldn’t tell your family until it’s absolutely final (he has the job, you have the “right”, etc) in case they prolong your guilt or try and talk you out of it.

Another thing - having a baby is a really good time to make friends (NCT, other baby classes). Don’t avoid making them because you know you’re leaving as anything could go wrong in the process (job in Hamberg could disappear etc). And even if you leave and know you’re leaving, it’s still good to have friends to get through the first part of motherhood with.

In summary - definitely plan to go. Don’t tell your family until it’s all confirmed. Do still go to all the baby classes and NCT and embrace making new friends! Don’t live for a future that isn’t confirmed yet.

To be fair I've seen this kind of dramatic language about the UK (you'll be stabbed for a Rolex in London, that kind of stuff) on many other threads. I think it's pessimistic and unhelpful- moving can be the right choice but halo & horn effect makes judging more difficult imo.