To emigrate knowing it will devastate my mum?

[tangotingo]

I’m breaking my heart over this as I know deep down I want to go but it will break my mum’s heart.

Been with my partner 4 years, we are engaged to be married next year. I’m pregnant with our first baby. I’m British, partner is from Eastern Europe and his family have settled all over the place (he has relatives in Canada, his home country, Germany and Scandinavia).

His younger sister lives in Germany and has lived there a few years now. She has a partner. They are settled in a lovely small town there which is very safe. They only work hospitality jobs there but have a lower cost of living - they live off one partner’s wage and save the rest. They are considering moving to Hamburg for more job opportunities. They are at a very similar age and life stage to us and are also expecting their first baby. There is a particular industry in Hamburg which is very big and similar to what my partner does for work in the UK, don’t want to go into more detail as it’s quite niche but we’ve seen that one particular large firm encourages foreigners to apply if they have a relevant skillset. I would struggle a bit more as my skills are administrative/customer service so I’d likely end up being a stay-at-home parent whilst learning German. My job in the UK is only a call centre role so it’s not like I’d be giving up a career, so I’m willing to do it so long as we can afford to live. Partner’s sister is confident you can live on one wage over there, and also says she knows a firm that is easy to get into without speaking German as she has helped friends from her own country get in there, so she says she could help us get in their initially if we wanted whilst we’re settling.

I feel, probably quite selfishly, that there is nothing for me in the UK. My parents had me in their 40s, I’m in my 20s now and they are in their 60s. They are full-time carers to my autistic brother who is 25 and they refuse to take any steps to prepare him for the fact that they won’t always be around. He is verbal but doesn’t work, he doesn’t even have a mobile phone as he refuses one and they just accept it. My dad is a hoarder and I hate visiting their home as it stresses me out. I have half-siblings on my dad’s who are 20 years older than me and don’t care about me despite my efforts to have a relationship (I’ve attempted to meet them on their birthdays etc to not even receive a text on mine).

I have dealt with so much anxiety over the years about how care for my parents and brother is likely to all fall on to me in the future as my parents age (my half siblings have no interest). I live an hour drive away as when I met my partner I moved to a different city to be with him. We can’t move to my parent’s city as my partner’s industry doesn’t exist there. I feel absolutely stifled by thoughts of the future. Due to my parents age and being carers they won’t be able to offer me any practical support with my baby. Since I moved an hour away 3 years they’ve visited me less than a handful of times.

Due to large age gaps with my siblings and the fact that my partner has no family in the UK, my child will have no cousins to grow up with except for kids my partner’s sister will have in Germany. I recently have been crying my eyes out as I’ve realised nobody in my family deserves to be godparents to my child, nobody gives a shit enough. We’ve already decided godparents will be partners sister and her partner.

Me and my partner are so lonely and desperate to be around people in a similar life stage. He was quite depressed his last birthday as it fell during a heatwave and he wanted to have a BBQ and realised there was just nobody to really invite so we didn’t bother. It’s getting to him now we’re having a child I think.

Our part of the UK is incredibly rough and our car was stolen a few months ago. I hate the UK rainy grey weather and get seasonal depression, I know Germany is hardly a hot country but the UK is particularly bad due to being an island and we’ve enjoyed many lovely summer BBQs and outdoor parties when visiting Germany previously. I’ve always said no to my partner when he’s suggested moving as I feel bad leaving my parents, but since becoming pregnant I’ve started to want to prioritise baby more and I feel they will be better off if we go to Germany. I only really want 1 child but feel pressure to have 2 if we stay in the UK as I feel the child will be lonely, but it’s different if they will have cousins which they will have in Germany. My, my partner, my partner’s sister and her partner will all be able to support each other.

We have the money to emigrate and get settled - £25,000 in savings. This was originally meant to be a house deposit in the UK but every time we’ve found a home we’ve had to pull out due to the house having major damp issues. Every house in our budget is awful and requires major renovation works. We’ve essentially given up.

I have decided I want to go, I know it won’t be easy to find a rental and jobs etc but I want to at least start the process even if it takes a couple of years. Due to my partner’s EU citizenship I can tag along with him to get residency. I think it’s best for me, my partner and the baby. But I know it will break my mums heart. Can anyone give any insight please? Just to add as well they won’t be able to visit me at all as they are poor, and my dad and brother refuse to travel and mum refuses to leave them.

Mum was worried when I first starting dating someone from another country and said from day 1 “please don’t emigrate.”

Am I a selfish cow?

I would probably choose Hamburg over where you are now. Having said that, Germany is not a straightforward place to move to. You need to start learning the language ASAP as you will be expected to integrate 100% so I would manage your expectations. You may even decide that five years or so is enough. Maybe say that to your mum - that it's not permanent and you will be back (because you never know.)

I think you are making a BIG mistake.

Leaving your home country and job while pregnant to become 100% dependent on your fiancé... What about your maternity leave rights? You'll be giving them up too. That's crazy!

Do you even speak any German?
If not, it's going to be impossible for you to get a job of any kind, other than cleaning & making beds in a hotel.
Your call centre job will seem like heaven in comparison.

Also, Germans are not friendly with outsiders and they have the really annoying habit of speaking in English as soon as they hear an Anglo-Saxon accent which makes it harder to acquire the language even when you are motivated (and impossible if you are not).

Next - have you ever been to Hamburg?
It's not great - a lot of homeless men and women in the city centre and a huge divide between rich and poor. It's big and soulless and the suburbs are like acres and acres of Legoland boxes...
I wouldn't be in any hurry to live there.

You are likely to end up on your own a lot and could end up suffering from post partum depression when you are no longer working.

Also, Germany is no El Dorado. Unemployment rates are 6.3% overall and 8.6% in Hamburg... It has a shrinking population and is way behind the curve in the Gig economy...

You're putting yourself in a financially vulnerable position wholly unnecessarily.

It sounds to me like your East European boyfriend has been grooming you.
My experience of East European men is that they are hyper conservative - more like your granddad than most British men your age nowadays.

Don't go!

I'm a bit worried that this is a 'grass is greener' situation. I doubt the problems that you are complaining about will be resolved by moving to Germany. A few things to think about:

-Why are the two of you so depressed about not having a close family? It's upsetting, of course, but many people are in this situation. It doesn't sound as if there has been any breakdown in the relationship with your parents, merely that they have caring responsibilities, sound a bit emeshed/incapable and have chronic health problems, despite not being elderly (you keep referring to them as elderly but they really aren't nowadays).
-Why do neither of you have close friends? That's fairly unusual in your mid 20s. What makes you think that this situation will improve in Germany? It will be harder as you don't speak any German! Germans also don't have a reputation for being the most friendly people.
-Think very, very hard about moving abroad and being completely financially dependent on your partner when you are not married AND have a child. Would you get married first?
It's a challenging situation with your dependent brother and parents not being in good health. I have several friends who would like to emigrate but have remained in the UK because of one or both of these factors. It would be much harder to help them from abroad.

I'm not saying you definitely should not go, just that you sound naive and perhaps haven't thought things through carefully because your wish to have lots of family support seems so strong.

I’m not being fucking groomed. How racist and insulting for you to suggest that my is an abuser because of his background! You sound like my mother.

.

Good - then get married BEFORE you leave otherwise you will live to regret it.
You're handing away your independence in a very nonchalant manner.
That's not smart.

Btw, sounds like your mum has her head screwed on.

I'm married to a foreigner myself so know the ins and outs and it's not racist to call out practical differences between two cultures (who by the way are the same race so you're playing the wrong card).

You dont seem to be very good mixers or able to make friends. This wont improve in Germany with a language barrier. You will be just as lonely but in a foreign country. Especially as you wont have a job

Your child wont be lonely in the UK. It will have school friends. Having a cousin wont cure lonliness. Most people are just on vaguely friendly terms with cousins, not kindred spirits.

It isn’t on OP’s responsibility to help them, regardless of whether she’s in the same country or from abroad.

By the sounds of she isn’t moving away from family support, but from family burden.

Sometimes the grass is indeed greener, and a change of scenery can make all the difference to one’s happiness. I’ve emigrated myself, twice (once as a child, and once as an adult), so I speak from experience.

No one country is ever going to appeal to everyone. I wouldn’t choose to live in the UK again, but equally there will of course be those that wouldn’t choose to live where I do. That’s fine, it comes down to individual preference. Is there potential for regret? Sure, that’s the same no matter if she stays or goes. For all the talk of regret though, OP may very well find Hamburg to be more of a home for her than the UK. She shouldn’t allow fear to paralyze her or prevent her from seizing this opportunity when she so very clearly wants to.

'Eastern Europe” covers a lot of very different countries and generations. On average some Central/Eastern European societies are more traditional on gender roles than the UK, but it varies hugely by age, city vs rural background, and class. Young men in Warsaw or Prague aren’t generally ‘like your granddad.’ It’s more complicated than that.

It could be ethnically prejudiced despite same race.
I agreed partly with your comment on men from EE (I'm partly Polish) but it was a bit generalising. And a reach imo to suggest OP is being groomed.

Is your mother prejudiced against Eastern European people?

Go - have an adventure while you can. You can move back if you wish. It’s not too far. You deserve a chance to be happy and your parents no doubt want that for you too.

No - it's based on lived experience.
I worked with a lot of Eastern Europeans and the pattern was very noticeable.
Noticing differences between cultures is not prejudice although some people like to play that card, a lot.

In practice, most people do want to help support their families, especially if there is a disabled sibling. Of course it isn't a legal responsibility in the UK, but many people would think they have a moral responsibility to help to some degree if the relationship is a good one.

You can't say that emigrating will be a positive thing based on your own experience, any more than I could say this myself! Different people are different. In this situation, she seems naive, is unmarried and pregnant, doesn't speak the language, plans to not work and be financially dependent on her partner, her only contact is his sister, doesn't sound as if she makes friends v easily, etc

I don't know Hamburg and it may well be much nicer than her current area but there are so many other factors to consider.

This. There is no one ‘Eastern European’ culture. We’re not some amorphous, indistinguishable mass.

Hell, cultures vary even within individual countries. There are countries that get lumped into the ‘Eastern European’ category that aren’t even Eastern European, but central or southern European.

She is pregnant you know.
I would not be giving the same advice to her if she were not.

She could end up unemployed and a single mum.
The warning signs are there.

She's better off being a single mum close to her own parents than alone in Germany where she knows no-one and doesn't speak the language.

Both of them appear to have issues socialising in the UK - that problem could get worse in Germany. Germans are not friendly and keep to themselves.

People can think what they like, but OP isn’t bound by what other people think.

I said it can be a positive thing. Remaining in a country you don’t want to be in, when you want very much to leave, is imo far more likely to be something OP would regret.

I’m sure OP has and will consider the many factors involved in emigration.

🤣🙄

Are the OP's parents 'abusive'? I think she should move, but I'm not sure if I agree with that assertion...hoarding, gambling, making unfair expectations of OP, yes,but I don't think 'abuse' should be overused. People can be unpleasant and behave badly without being abusive.

This sounds very unpleasant but one argument alone doesn't mean 'abusive' even though the comments are horrible. :

'I had a fall-out with my parents in 2016 over Brexit as I was saddened that it would be harder for me to try living and working in the EU in the future and I had mentioned this to them. They were very vicious and nasty about it and said they were glad they voted Brexit as now I couldn’t “bugger off” anymore.'

How is she better off being by her parents as a single mother? It hardly sounds like they’ll be support for her, but would add considerably to her workload.

Tbf OP said her neighbourhood is rough and she had friends in old one.

Exactly. Imo it's hangover from the Iron Curtain when the 'east' really did seem shut off. But now I think people are more aware of the variety etc rather than stereotypes of it being some medieval backwater everywhere.

To be fair, many Eastern European men who come to UK are working class, and often rural. It's a cross-country pattern for people from these groups to have more traditional attitudes often, not just in EE.

Were they mostly from these backgrounds?

You're ignoring practical matters and focusing on her holiday experience of Germany. Who doesn't enjoy their holidays?

She is pregnant, giving up her safe job to move to a country where she cannot work, doesn't speak the lingo, will be 100% dependent on her boyfriend (not her husband - that's only a promise on his part - good luck with that!) and already has issues making friends in her home country.

Then add in the reality that Germans are an unfriendly bunch and blunt to the point of being rude as far as most British people are concerned (and I say that as a Germanophile).

What could possibly go wrong?

No - they were mainly university-educated colleagues like myself.