To emigrate knowing it will devastate my mum?

[tangotingo]

I’m breaking my heart over this as I know deep down I want to go but it will break my mum’s heart.

Been with my partner 4 years, we are engaged to be married next year. I’m pregnant with our first baby. I’m British, partner is from Eastern Europe and his family have settled all over the place (he has relatives in Canada, his home country, Germany and Scandinavia).

His younger sister lives in Germany and has lived there a few years now. She has a partner. They are settled in a lovely small town there which is very safe. They only work hospitality jobs there but have a lower cost of living - they live off one partner’s wage and save the rest. They are considering moving to Hamburg for more job opportunities. They are at a very similar age and life stage to us and are also expecting their first baby. There is a particular industry in Hamburg which is very big and similar to what my partner does for work in the UK, don’t want to go into more detail as it’s quite niche but we’ve seen that one particular large firm encourages foreigners to apply if they have a relevant skillset. I would struggle a bit more as my skills are administrative/customer service so I’d likely end up being a stay-at-home parent whilst learning German. My job in the UK is only a call centre role so it’s not like I’d be giving up a career, so I’m willing to do it so long as we can afford to live. Partner’s sister is confident you can live on one wage over there, and also says she knows a firm that is easy to get into without speaking German as she has helped friends from her own country get in there, so she says she could help us get in their initially if we wanted whilst we’re settling.

I feel, probably quite selfishly, that there is nothing for me in the UK. My parents had me in their 40s, I’m in my 20s now and they are in their 60s. They are full-time carers to my autistic brother who is 25 and they refuse to take any steps to prepare him for the fact that they won’t always be around. He is verbal but doesn’t work, he doesn’t even have a mobile phone as he refuses one and they just accept it. My dad is a hoarder and I hate visiting their home as it stresses me out. I have half-siblings on my dad’s who are 20 years older than me and don’t care about me despite my efforts to have a relationship (I’ve attempted to meet them on their birthdays etc to not even receive a text on mine).

I have dealt with so much anxiety over the years about how care for my parents and brother is likely to all fall on to me in the future as my parents age (my half siblings have no interest). I live an hour drive away as when I met my partner I moved to a different city to be with him. We can’t move to my parent’s city as my partner’s industry doesn’t exist there. I feel absolutely stifled by thoughts of the future. Due to my parents age and being carers they won’t be able to offer me any practical support with my baby. Since I moved an hour away 3 years they’ve visited me less than a handful of times.

Due to large age gaps with my siblings and the fact that my partner has no family in the UK, my child will have no cousins to grow up with except for kids my partner’s sister will have in Germany. I recently have been crying my eyes out as I’ve realised nobody in my family deserves to be godparents to my child, nobody gives a shit enough. We’ve already decided godparents will be partners sister and her partner.

Me and my partner are so lonely and desperate to be around people in a similar life stage. He was quite depressed his last birthday as it fell during a heatwave and he wanted to have a BBQ and realised there was just nobody to really invite so we didn’t bother. It’s getting to him now we’re having a child I think.

Our part of the UK is incredibly rough and our car was stolen a few months ago. I hate the UK rainy grey weather and get seasonal depression, I know Germany is hardly a hot country but the UK is particularly bad due to being an island and we’ve enjoyed many lovely summer BBQs and outdoor parties when visiting Germany previously. I’ve always said no to my partner when he’s suggested moving as I feel bad leaving my parents, but since becoming pregnant I’ve started to want to prioritise baby more and I feel they will be better off if we go to Germany. I only really want 1 child but feel pressure to have 2 if we stay in the UK as I feel the child will be lonely, but it’s different if they will have cousins which they will have in Germany. My, my partner, my partner’s sister and her partner will all be able to support each other.

We have the money to emigrate and get settled - £25,000 in savings. This was originally meant to be a house deposit in the UK but every time we’ve found a home we’ve had to pull out due to the house having major damp issues. Every house in our budget is awful and requires major renovation works. We’ve essentially given up.

I have decided I want to go, I know it won’t be easy to find a rental and jobs etc but I want to at least start the process even if it takes a couple of years. Due to my partner’s EU citizenship I can tag along with him to get residency. I think it’s best for me, my partner and the baby. But I know it will break my mums heart. Can anyone give any insight please? Just to add as well they won’t be able to visit me at all as they are poor, and my dad and brother refuse to travel and mum refuses to leave them.

Mum was worried when I first starting dating someone from another country and said from day 1 “please don’t emigrate.”

Am I a selfish cow?

I’m happy to DM you too.

Canada is amazing though, it's huge, the people are friendly and the geography is incredible. If it wasn't for you, no point in staying, though.

Go for it, you tend to regret things you dont do rather than things you do. Coming from someone who’s done it, it will be hard, especially learning the language. Finding somewhere to rent will also be tough. Make use of the local expat group for any tips on flats to rent and local German courses. Maybe post on their Facebook page. Organize a “expat” mum and baby group meetup to make friends.
Getting a kindergarten place can be challenging, you might need to register for a place as soon as possible after birth! If you can, get a kindergarten place even if you don't have a job lined up.
You will need to register and pay for health insurance in order to access a GP etc. Most people have public insurance but private is also available. See online for the benefits of each but I’ve read that it’s difficult to move to public once you have been with a private provider. With public, your child will also be covered. Some insurance providers (Krankenkasse) have services in english. The whole health insurance thing is so much easier to deal with when you have a job.
Finally, if you would resent the church taxing your wages, don’t fill out the question asking about your religion on any official registration forms.

My DD says the same about the UK. She has a German bf and is currently working on being able to live there.
We are a close family and I will be sad but I want her to go and have a lovely life there.

I suppose it's a bit easier for me to say because I will visit her. I will miss her terribly but she's not my possession to hold on to.

Any parent that holds their child back from living the life they want (wherever they want) is selfish.
If you are made to feel selfish by them with emotional manipulation that's your proof of their self centredness.

Please dont ignore the advice about getting.married first its REALLY important to be in a secure position for you and child

Mine are teens now. I didn’t have a great childhood, and my parents didn’t want me to keep my surprise 1st child. As my children grew I saw them repeating how they treated me with my children. I made so much effort to involve them. It wasn’t reciprocated or appreciated.
ive not seen them for almost 10 years now.
having children brings up your childhood and you also put boundaries in for them - even when you may not have done for yourself.

good luck on your travels, it sounds the right thing for you and yours. My only advice would be try and settle somewhere by the time yours are in school.

Yes, of course her own happiness should be more important TO HER.

She is not obliged to sacrifice her life and happiness to be a carer for her brother. Her parents need to make sure he’s in appropriate accommodation with appropriate care - this is not OP’s responsibility.

Go! You and your child will have a far better life there. Do it asap.

God almighty, OP, you’d think you were moving to the moon, the way people are going on.

I think it’s lovely that your partner (and you) will get to be close to his family, especially as you’ve said he’s not had that. How is it any different to moving to his home country, for example, and only having his family members to rely on?

i don’t understand the catastrophizing from some posters. Nowhere have you send you’re going to chuck it all in and move there tomorrow. Of course learning a language takes time but it’s hardly impossible.

For what it’s worth, my best friend met a German lad here in the UK and ended up moving to Hamburg. She did an intensive German course and started working in a nursery - kindergarten - as an English speaking assistant (she had to know German too) not long after. She doesn’t love it there, not because it’s awful, she just misses the UK, but it’s not like she hasn’t made a good life for herself there.

I’d definitely give it a go. I guess the worst that happens is that you don’t like it, or it doesn’t work out and you move back, or somewhere else. At least you’ll know you tried something to improve your little family’s life.

Hi OP.
you say the thought of caring for your family makes you feel physically ill and I believe that is not an overstatement and very well could.

It’s beyond infuriating to watch people sleepwalk into something and feel like you carry the burden of picking it all up after.

sadly your family seem locked into a dynamic and are unwilling to change it.
It sounds like you know you have to choose yourself (well, your baby) and carve out the life you want:

I wish you so much luck

I don't think you sound meek or incapable! Go for it. Life is an adventure ✨️

Absolutely go . You should think about what is best for your family .

I'm from Germany and living in the UK. I would be very wary of your problems following you. If you have no close friends now I am not sure how many you will find in Germany. It's not a hugely welcoming culture and Northern Germany is generally more reserved than some of the southern parts.
Hamburg is quite expensive so maybe not that comparable to the smaller town your sister in law seems to live in at the moment. I think having your sister in law as your only support network and not knowing the language will also be tricky. Having supported elderly and sick parents in Germany while living in the UK has been a nightmare for me- so you might be looking at the reverse problem in a few years. I am not saying don't move to Germany as there are some advantages but as someone who isn't able to find contentment in your own country I urge you to be realistic how much contentment you can reasonably expect in the first couple of years or even longer in a foreign country where you only know one other family and don't know the language. My guess is that you will find the adjustment extremely hard - at least at first.

Could you also DM me?

OP, I studied German and lived/worked in Germany for several years. If you really want to give this a shot (which it sounds like you do), you should go for it - with time and effort you can learn the language, and in the meantime it's perfectly possibly to get by in day-to-day life in English. I found it tough to make friends there initially (despite being fluent in German) not because people weren't welcoming but it just seems to take more to cross over from acquaintance to friend there. I was lonely when I first moved over but made friends with a bunch of ex pats and had a great social life, and after some time made some German friends too.

There are risks of course that others have mentioned (i.e. splitting with your partner) but ultimately it's your call whether or not the move is worth taking those risks. Germany isn't without its problems but generally speaking quality of life is higher, healthcare is FAR better than you'll get here, and childcare is heavily subsidised. Cycling is much easier due to better infrastructure for cyclists, trains are cheaper, and smaller towns better connected through the tramlines. Also, someone else mentioned the bread is awesome - this is very true, German bread is amazing!

I moved back to the UK after Brexit, and before having my kids. My DH is from a Central European country, and many people of his nationality are also leaving the UK in droves. While I do feel attached to my life here sometimes I wonder what it would've been like for us if we'd settled in mainland Europe instead. The antenatal care I had in Germany during my first pregnancy was exceptional - second pregnancy here in the UK I got bare minimum support from overworked midwives doing their best in a system that is broken. Nothing works as it should and everything seems to be in a state of constant crisis. We pay £800 a month to send our youngest to nursery 3 days a week, and despite both working decent jobs we are chronically skint because just existing in the UK right now is so bloody expensive. Brexit was a complete disaster. My local town centre post-COVID is a rundown mess of vape shops and drug addicts fighting each other in the street. It's just shit.

Aside from all that, your mum saying you can't emigrate because "we all need you" is emotionally manipulative and just not ok. It's your life! Wish you all the best whatever you decide.

It sounds like the best option but I would prioritise getting yourself a job so you aren't financially dependent on someone else.

If you break up, you'll be stuck over there until your child is 18 and you'll need an income and be paying into a pension. You'll be giving up a UK state pension and need to plan ahead so you're not living in poverty in old age.

I think this is unfair re climate. I think that’s more holiday timing than climate. Berlin, Krakow and Copenhagen are all colder and darker than the UK for much of the year, and Tokyo has typhoon season and brutal humidity, not to mention earthquakes. Nice is bouling and has wildfire risk in summer.

Britain’s weather is often grey, but it’s actually pretty mild compared to most of Europe. You're comparing the warm holiday seasons abroad to wet days here but overlooking the bigger picture.

Spring and summer average low 20s and are actually drier than autumn. We just notice the grey days more. Compared to Berlin or Krakow our winters are positively mild — we basically have “boring temperate” rather than two rainy seasons.

Are you from Sweden BTW?

I think you would be foolish NOT to give it a try! If you don't like it and it doesn't work out you can come home or move somewhere else - it's not a life sentence and it's also not very far!

I moved from England to the West coast of the US and while my mum missed me horribly, she was excited for the opportunities and she was thrilled that it made me so happy. But even if that hadn't been the case - you are not responsible for your parents choices and feelings - they live their lives and you live yours.

I think you think Gwrmany etc will be rosy but I think you are naive and will regret it. Germany is a hard country to live in. They arent particularly friendly and they expect very high standards. They can be racist too. You would be entirely dependent on ypur partner and if anyrhing goes wrong ypu'll have no support network and will be in a cpuntry you dont understand.

Have you been to Hamburg?
It's not great - a lot of homeless men and women in the city centre and a big divide between rich and poor.
I wouldn't be in a hurry to live there.
It's big and soulless.

Yes, the attitudes to Turkish migrants in Germany have often been unfriendly. And look at the AFD topping the polls!

Actually Copenhagen gets more daylight than Aberdeen. It is colder though.

Make sure that you can stay and work in Germany if you and your DP split up - but apart from that it sounds like obviously the best decision for your family. I wouldn't prioritise my parents' wants over giving my child a long-term better standard of living.

Just wanted to say, I get where you are at with the lonely bit - been there ourselves after we moved house, eventually made brilliant friends through fellow school parents - but when you have your baby you might make new friends in baby groups or in the local park, if they go to nursery or playgroup, and through school. It does take a little time though.

But bigger change won’t happen unless you make it happen and make brave choices - emigrating sounds like a great choice. I did think you meant Australia from the title 🤪 because that’s a harder distance having known many who’ve done it / are currently doing it, whereas Germany is so close travel wise to the UK you really shouldn’t give family a second thought at this point. You can get back for any emergencies. Go enjoy your new adventure!

I went there with a male friend who had a German female friend..She took us to a party in Berllin. No-one even attempted to speak to us and I know it was because we were English. It was obvious.