To emigrate knowing it will devastate my mum?

[tangotingo]

I’m breaking my heart over this as I know deep down I want to go but it will break my mum’s heart.

Been with my partner 4 years, we are engaged to be married next year. I’m pregnant with our first baby. I’m British, partner is from Eastern Europe and his family have settled all over the place (he has relatives in Canada, his home country, Germany and Scandinavia).

His younger sister lives in Germany and has lived there a few years now. She has a partner. They are settled in a lovely small town there which is very safe. They only work hospitality jobs there but have a lower cost of living - they live off one partner’s wage and save the rest. They are considering moving to Hamburg for more job opportunities. They are at a very similar age and life stage to us and are also expecting their first baby. There is a particular industry in Hamburg which is very big and similar to what my partner does for work in the UK, don’t want to go into more detail as it’s quite niche but we’ve seen that one particular large firm encourages foreigners to apply if they have a relevant skillset. I would struggle a bit more as my skills are administrative/customer service so I’d likely end up being a stay-at-home parent whilst learning German. My job in the UK is only a call centre role so it’s not like I’d be giving up a career, so I’m willing to do it so long as we can afford to live. Partner’s sister is confident you can live on one wage over there, and also says she knows a firm that is easy to get into without speaking German as she has helped friends from her own country get in there, so she says she could help us get in their initially if we wanted whilst we’re settling.

I feel, probably quite selfishly, that there is nothing for me in the UK. My parents had me in their 40s, I’m in my 20s now and they are in their 60s. They are full-time carers to my autistic brother who is 25 and they refuse to take any steps to prepare him for the fact that they won’t always be around. He is verbal but doesn’t work, he doesn’t even have a mobile phone as he refuses one and they just accept it. My dad is a hoarder and I hate visiting their home as it stresses me out. I have half-siblings on my dad’s who are 20 years older than me and don’t care about me despite my efforts to have a relationship (I’ve attempted to meet them on their birthdays etc to not even receive a text on mine).

I have dealt with so much anxiety over the years about how care for my parents and brother is likely to all fall on to me in the future as my parents age (my half siblings have no interest). I live an hour drive away as when I met my partner I moved to a different city to be with him. We can’t move to my parent’s city as my partner’s industry doesn’t exist there. I feel absolutely stifled by thoughts of the future. Due to my parents age and being carers they won’t be able to offer me any practical support with my baby. Since I moved an hour away 3 years they’ve visited me less than a handful of times.

Due to large age gaps with my siblings and the fact that my partner has no family in the UK, my child will have no cousins to grow up with except for kids my partner’s sister will have in Germany. I recently have been crying my eyes out as I’ve realised nobody in my family deserves to be godparents to my child, nobody gives a shit enough. We’ve already decided godparents will be partners sister and her partner.

Me and my partner are so lonely and desperate to be around people in a similar life stage. He was quite depressed his last birthday as it fell during a heatwave and he wanted to have a BBQ and realised there was just nobody to really invite so we didn’t bother. It’s getting to him now we’re having a child I think.

Our part of the UK is incredibly rough and our car was stolen a few months ago. I hate the UK rainy grey weather and get seasonal depression, I know Germany is hardly a hot country but the UK is particularly bad due to being an island and we’ve enjoyed many lovely summer BBQs and outdoor parties when visiting Germany previously. I’ve always said no to my partner when he’s suggested moving as I feel bad leaving my parents, but since becoming pregnant I’ve started to want to prioritise baby more and I feel they will be better off if we go to Germany. I only really want 1 child but feel pressure to have 2 if we stay in the UK as I feel the child will be lonely, but it’s different if they will have cousins which they will have in Germany. My, my partner, my partner’s sister and her partner will all be able to support each other.

We have the money to emigrate and get settled - £25,000 in savings. This was originally meant to be a house deposit in the UK but every time we’ve found a home we’ve had to pull out due to the house having major damp issues. Every house in our budget is awful and requires major renovation works. We’ve essentially given up.

I have decided I want to go, I know it won’t be easy to find a rental and jobs etc but I want to at least start the process even if it takes a couple of years. Due to my partner’s EU citizenship I can tag along with him to get residency. I think it’s best for me, my partner and the baby. But I know it will break my mums heart. Can anyone give any insight please? Just to add as well they won’t be able to visit me at all as they are poor, and my dad and brother refuse to travel and mum refuses to leave them.

Mum was worried when I first starting dating someone from another country and said from day 1 “please don’t emigrate.”

Am I a selfish cow?

No, I understand that you're in the process of thinking it through and I think it could be a really positive step for you.

I don't know the ins and outs of German immigration laws, but I don't see the language as an insurmountable problem. So many Germans speak excellent English and I recommend the Memrise website for learning languages.

Good luck.

Op. I'm from a town not a million miles away from Hamburg and have family there. Have been in the UK for 30 years and would move back like a shot if British DH was on board. Hamburg is a great place and has the reputation of being the most 'British' town in Germany. This is not just about the language but also culturally - Northern Germans are quite reserved, with a dry sense of humour and the people of Hamburg have the reputation of being pragmatic and understated...I think there are parallels... Having said that - it is an expensive place. Id say get married and give it a try try though. Ryanair didn't exist when I moved to London. Before COVID I visited my mum once or twice a month. It really isn't far and I would give myself a few years to try it and return if it doesn't work out. Really not such a big deal these days. I didn't have children in the mix though so that would need consideration. As for your family's expectations to care for your brother: easier said than done but don't give it a second thought.

I found Khalil Gibran s chapter on children in 'the Prophet' hugely helpful to deal with my own guilt around this.

So who's responsibility is it? Do we owe each other nothing??

What’s ‘vile’ about it? You’ve explained that you have no friends because you moved and haven’t gelled with your neighbours or workmates — people are wondering, reasonably enough, how you expect to be less lonely in another country, with language and cultural barriers?

Do it and don't look back.
Parents should be encouraging, not holding you back for thier own benefit. It also sounds like they are disabling hin further by not allowing communication via a mobile phone of his own, this could only be a good thing for him and help him gain some independence. and it is not fair that it would automatically fall to you to care for your brother. I moved away 10 years ago to a different part of the uk for this very reason. You didn't ask to be born, so to have all the expectations and burdens thrust upon you is unfair.

I feel for you, as i understand your exact position. The future for my siblings makes me feel ill. But it also should not be my responsibility to drop everything for them. Dont listen to anyone who may make you think youre selfish. When the time comes, SS will have to step in to ensure that your brother has the care he needs and carry out a care needs assessment.

I think it sounds like you and your partner and child will thrive by moving, youll have support and connections and adventure, itll make life worth living! I urge you to do it, good luck.

I haven’t read many of the responses but have read most of your posts OP. I completely get where you are coming from and you explain your reasons very clearly. Many people get stuck in shit situations though unnecessary obligation or apathy, but you have seen this potential future and have also seen what seems a good solution. It’s your life. And you really do not need to waste it being a carer for family members who clearly would not reciprocate. I can’t comment on any of the logistics around emigration and working overseas, but I think your attitude across all you posts is fantastic and I wish you the best of luck for an exciting future

I don't blame you for wanting more than that, and it's only Europe, I thought you were going to say Australia or somewhere. I think Germany could give you a nicer quality of living, potentially.

What I would say it, do you REALLY know the type of place you could afford to live over there, or are you basing it on where you have stayed as a tourist or with friends in their houses. People naiively visit European cities on holiday and think they'd like to live there, but don't look into the type of place they'd actually have to be living in.

If you have a baby that's when you start making new friends. Is that going to be easy in Germany if all the other mums are rabbiting to each other in German? Or is it somehwere where they'll be a lot of ex-pats?

Consider what would happen if you wanted to move back to the UK. How easy would it be to do? They start school later in Germany, and so if you were wanting to move back when kids are in primary you might find that they are a year behind the curriculum.

Not OP’s. She absolutely doesn’t owe it to her parents, or brother, to shape her life around them.

It’s only Germany, not like Australia. I’d go in your shoes. Sounds a good move.

So who then? Who will look after him when his parents are gone?
Could you honestly be happy knowing that someone's life is worse because of a decision you made?

Are you really telling Op not to go on the basis that her life there might be as crap as it seems now? It might be bloody fantastic!
OP give it a try. You will never know unless you do. And northern Germany is hardly Aus or NZ!

Please be aware of how expensive housing is in Hamburg. It is also really difficult to find and be accepted for accommodation, both renting and buying. I love the city but it can be hard to meet people and make friends initially. Good luck whatever you decide to do.

I’d move in a heart beat in your circumstances to be honest.

This is the sort of thing people don't think about when they decide it's absolutely fine to leave having babies until they are in their forties. It's not fair for women to end up as carers for their elderly parents while they've still got very young children of their own.

This is something that comes up time and time again on MN and the children of older mothers often express feeling sad about lack of extended family, parents becoming frail inevitably as they get older, lack of support bringing up their children because parents are too elderly to play an active role and they always get shot down and told, as the OP has been on this thread, to be grateful because otherwise she wouldn’t be here or people come along with the usual my DM lived until she was 102 and was as fit as a fiddle trope.

Sometimes circumstances dictate that you don't/ can’t have children until later in life but please let’s be honest that it is hard for both the older mother and the child of an older mother. It is deeply frowned upon on MN to accept the point of view of the child in this situation but it is the harsh truth of the matter and should be considered. I would’ve loved to have more children but in my 40s now, I won’t because having older parents myself has been difficult and I’d be hypocritical to have more children now.

So OP’s life should be worse because of decisions her parents have made? Or does her happiness not count at all?

Just do it. You only have 1 life, live it! Good luck xx

You can't live your life trying to make everyone happy. What do you do if two people have different needs and there is always going to be one unhappy with the choice, so you can't win?

I think, at minimum, if OP's parents pass she should make sure her brother is taken care of by social services and placed in a good living situation by them. She doesn't have to be his carer though. It doesn't have to be all or nothing.

Which European country has your friend moved their child of colour to that she feels is safe? I’m interested to know

Ooh, I strongly disagree! 3 genders, all the different cases. And such looooong words.

I’ve been in similar circumstances with much older parents and siblings 20 years older who didn’t want to know. I moved to Germany (no kids though) and although I’d love a family who cares it is what it is and staying would not have improved matters.

So I say go, go, go, but please, get married before you do, as soon as possible, in fact. Don’t fall for that ‘its just a peice of paper’ line, it really isn’t.

That’s for the parents to decide. I believe the state will be required to step in if they fail to do so.

And yes, of course. I already refrain from devoting my life to doing things I don’t want to do, and I can’t say I’ve ever found this to be even slightly troubling.

It’s quite possible social services will try to divest any responsibility if a family member appears to be involved and there is fuck all chance that any such involvement will improve the outcome unless it includes significant financial investment which the OP can neither afford nor is obliged to provide

Of course it does, but is it more important than her brother's?

If it's what you want to do, you should do it.

My Mum also begged me not to leave - all my siblings already had and I was the youngest. I fell soft and stayed.
I'm heading towards 40 and I really regret leaving. My Mum died a few years ago and we had a fraught relationship. I think deep down I resented her. I watched my siblings live the lives of their dreams as I stayed behind.

They can try, you can refuse. You'll need to be strong, but you can refuse.