To emigrate knowing it will devastate my mum?

[tangotingo]

I’m breaking my heart over this as I know deep down I want to go but it will break my mum’s heart.

Been with my partner 4 years, we are engaged to be married next year. I’m pregnant with our first baby. I’m British, partner is from Eastern Europe and his family have settled all over the place (he has relatives in Canada, his home country, Germany and Scandinavia).

His younger sister lives in Germany and has lived there a few years now. She has a partner. They are settled in a lovely small town there which is very safe. They only work hospitality jobs there but have a lower cost of living - they live off one partner’s wage and save the rest. They are considering moving to Hamburg for more job opportunities. They are at a very similar age and life stage to us and are also expecting their first baby. There is a particular industry in Hamburg which is very big and similar to what my partner does for work in the UK, don’t want to go into more detail as it’s quite niche but we’ve seen that one particular large firm encourages foreigners to apply if they have a relevant skillset. I would struggle a bit more as my skills are administrative/customer service so I’d likely end up being a stay-at-home parent whilst learning German. My job in the UK is only a call centre role so it’s not like I’d be giving up a career, so I’m willing to do it so long as we can afford to live. Partner’s sister is confident you can live on one wage over there, and also says she knows a firm that is easy to get into without speaking German as she has helped friends from her own country get in there, so she says she could help us get in their initially if we wanted whilst we’re settling.

I feel, probably quite selfishly, that there is nothing for me in the UK. My parents had me in their 40s, I’m in my 20s now and they are in their 60s. They are full-time carers to my autistic brother who is 25 and they refuse to take any steps to prepare him for the fact that they won’t always be around. He is verbal but doesn’t work, he doesn’t even have a mobile phone as he refuses one and they just accept it. My dad is a hoarder and I hate visiting their home as it stresses me out. I have half-siblings on my dad’s who are 20 years older than me and don’t care about me despite my efforts to have a relationship (I’ve attempted to meet them on their birthdays etc to not even receive a text on mine).

I have dealt with so much anxiety over the years about how care for my parents and brother is likely to all fall on to me in the future as my parents age (my half siblings have no interest). I live an hour drive away as when I met my partner I moved to a different city to be with him. We can’t move to my parent’s city as my partner’s industry doesn’t exist there. I feel absolutely stifled by thoughts of the future. Due to my parents age and being carers they won’t be able to offer me any practical support with my baby. Since I moved an hour away 3 years they’ve visited me less than a handful of times.

Due to large age gaps with my siblings and the fact that my partner has no family in the UK, my child will have no cousins to grow up with except for kids my partner’s sister will have in Germany. I recently have been crying my eyes out as I’ve realised nobody in my family deserves to be godparents to my child, nobody gives a shit enough. We’ve already decided godparents will be partners sister and her partner.

Me and my partner are so lonely and desperate to be around people in a similar life stage. He was quite depressed his last birthday as it fell during a heatwave and he wanted to have a BBQ and realised there was just nobody to really invite so we didn’t bother. It’s getting to him now we’re having a child I think.

Our part of the UK is incredibly rough and our car was stolen a few months ago. I hate the UK rainy grey weather and get seasonal depression, I know Germany is hardly a hot country but the UK is particularly bad due to being an island and we’ve enjoyed many lovely summer BBQs and outdoor parties when visiting Germany previously. I’ve always said no to my partner when he’s suggested moving as I feel bad leaving my parents, but since becoming pregnant I’ve started to want to prioritise baby more and I feel they will be better off if we go to Germany. I only really want 1 child but feel pressure to have 2 if we stay in the UK as I feel the child will be lonely, but it’s different if they will have cousins which they will have in Germany. My, my partner, my partner’s sister and her partner will all be able to support each other.

We have the money to emigrate and get settled - £25,000 in savings. This was originally meant to be a house deposit in the UK but every time we’ve found a home we’ve had to pull out due to the house having major damp issues. Every house in our budget is awful and requires major renovation works. We’ve essentially given up.

I have decided I want to go, I know it won’t be easy to find a rental and jobs etc but I want to at least start the process even if it takes a couple of years. Due to my partner’s EU citizenship I can tag along with him to get residency. I think it’s best for me, my partner and the baby. But I know it will break my mums heart. Can anyone give any insight please? Just to add as well they won’t be able to visit me at all as they are poor, and my dad and brother refuse to travel and mum refuses to leave them.

Mum was worried when I first starting dating someone from another country and said from day 1 “please don’t emigrate.”

Am I a selfish cow?

Have you looked at the cost of rentals?

Once we’ve made the decision to definitely go we’ll start learning the language straight away.

Nope, you start learning it now and then you'll see whether you are going to be able to learn it or not. Even if you decide not to go it won't have been wasted time because you go on holiday there anyway and can use it then.

Any reason why neither you nor partner has made an friends in 3 years since
moving?

what does your partner currently earn?

I'm Aberdeenshire and thriving 😁 . There's been no sun for 20 days mind you.

Why not start learning German for fun right now? It is hard but I'm really enjoying it. If you're likely to have nephews and nieces in Germany anyway, it might be a good one.

We have acquaintances and casual friends but nobody we are very close to. I’ve found people in the UK have become very standoffish since Covid and things seem to fizzle out despite our efforts.

Go OP. Your parents have decided where they wanted to live, that doesn’t mean you have to stay there forever. There are organisations that can support your brother and your parents as they age. You get one life, don’t lose the best years of it to someone else’s choices.

Would you consider emigrating to Canada given you have experienced life there and also you don’t have the language barrier? It’s an amazing country to raise a child in and areas are still very affordable compared to the U.K. despite what everyone says about it being expensive.

Huh?

So in that case, why do you think Germany will be any different post Covid

I’ve found people in the UK have become very standoffish since Covid and things seem to fizzle out despite our efforts.

oh nonsense

Do it OP. Just learn German as fast as you can.

I’ve made clear my reasons who wanting to go to Germany. Read my posts.

Go for it, OP! It's a great opportunity. I've spent a lot of time in Germany over the years as I have a close family member there, and I'd say it certainly offers a better standard of living than the UK. Renters have lots of rights there, workplace rights are better, and the healthcare system actually works.

The language is hard, though! It's easy enough to get by, and most people do speak English, some of them extremely fluently. But to get to a decent level of fluency in German will take a lot of study and practice, so be prepared! Germans are also quite a bit more formal than most British people. You are expected to use the Sie form of address very often in all kinds of situations. Parties can be fairly boring affairs. Also the food is... well. If you like sausages and dumplings you'll be okay.

There are also lots of German towns and cities that have similar problems to the UK and can be fairly miserable, so do lots of research about where you want to live. Bureaucracy can be very slow. German offices still have fax machines. The shops are closed on Sundays and lots of religious holidays. If you're religious at all, join a church and you'll get so much support! You will see lots of great things everywhere, such as trains and trams that run regularly and are super cheap, lovely public baths, and so much beautiful countryside. Plus you can get to most of mainland Europe by train very cheaply, so you can have lots of fun trips with young kids.

Obviously make sure you're prepared for the eventuality that something goes wrong - but don't let the fear of it stop you. I hope you can get going asap!

Yes and a big one is feeling lonely

what does your partner currently earn?

Mumsnet is full of posts where people say they’ve stopped bothering socialising since Covid.

£45,000. Awaiting all of the “Oooh that’s really not much, you’re practically on the breadline!” responses.

GO - and don't look back.

We moved with a 2, 4 and 6 year old to Eastern Europe. If one of you is an EU citizen then it is super easy (easier to move elsewhere in the EU and have your spouse join you than it would be if your partner was actually German because EU FOM rights are broader than national rights - do people really not understand what we gave up due to Brexit, just how easy it was if just ONE of you had an EU passport).

You cannot live your life expecting or worrying about the worst. Discuss it, have a plan for sure but who actually lives their lives that way. Not any kind of people I am interested in knowing.

My kids have thrived. Started school at 7 - whereas in the UK they were wanting to subject my HF autistic 6 year old to SATs. At 6!! WTF? When I look at the 7 years olds in Grade 1 I think they look soooo young. Starting at 4 is barbaric.

We didn't speak a word of the language when we moved. Knew nobody. Had only visited the country for one weekend previously when we made our decision. Our friends now are a mixture of locals and expats. We have a house at the edge of the forest with a huge garden and swimming pool and views to die for that we could never afford in the UK. We ski twice a week in the winter. We can drive to 6 countries in a couple of hours for a weekend away. When our kids were small we paid less than £10 per month for childcare (8 am to 6pm if needed) including breakfast and lunch. Only our mortgage was a bigger cost in the UK than childcare.

We did join some expat groups on FB because they are super helpful for meeting people and getting used to systems that are second nature to the locals (plus the locals don't deal with immigration or getting the doctor to use your Foreigner ID number rather than your national ID number so as much as you want to integrate there is some benefit in also knowing the expat community who have dealt with this stuff).

We are moving countries again later this year as it is right for the kids just now. The thing I am most proud of is just how wide their horizons are. When we discussed high schools we discussed Valencia, Malta, Berlin, Dublin, when we discuss Universities we discuss Amsterdam, Adelaide, Sofia, Athens. They are truly global citizens and I think it is wonderful.

Just GO!

@tangotingo Go for it. I would in a heartbeat for many of the reasons you mention (apart from small child care because it doesn't apply...but German education is, by and large, good). I lived in a number of European countries pre-Brexit and Germany was a good one.
Also, and I know this sounds like I am an uncaring person, I would absolutely absent myself to make your parents face up to your brother's needs. It is NOT your responsibility.

You need to be 100% sure of your relationship. Realistically, 50% of marriages fail. If you relocate to Germany and your kids are residents you can't just leave or return home in the event of a divorce/ separation. You'll need his written agreement or a court order to bring your kids back to the UK permanently. Otherwise, it would be considered international child abduction. So you could get stuck there until your kids are adults

Hamburg isnt far at all! There are daily flights from Heathrow.
Go for it!

What industry?

I am from the UK and moved abroad with children a decade ago. I didn't speak the language, and am still picking it up as I work in an Engish speaking business.

The comments about making no friends because OP doesn't speak German isn't necessarily a big deal. European cities always have big expat communities and plenty of expat mum Facebook groups. I had made friends from my area before I had even moved. Many Germas also speak English, and those who don't will just be extra practise for OP! I found that I always found it tricky to make friends when I lived in the UK, bar my two best friends from school. Since moving abroad I have made so many friends because I feel that expats are often much more open to friendships because your new friends become like a family. I am an immigrant and meet immigrants from different nationalities literally every day of my life.

Op, can I ask what qualifications you do have? Just for some ideas for work; international schools need qualified teachers (of you would be interested in training as a teacher!) And often hire unqualified, English mother-tongue teaching assistants, depending on experience. Private English lessons, helping teenagers with English homework and things like that could be some options.

I love my life abroad and would urge you to do it.

How much would he earn in Hamburg and how much are rentals?

This has been stated in a previous post. It’s an industry that is prominent in Hamburg. I’m not humouring your questions anymore. You aren’t responding with any relevant advice, just firing questions at me. It’s bizarre.

Sounds like a great opportunity, I’d leave the UK if I could. Are you entitled to live there?

download Duolingo and start learning German. It’s actually a lot easier than French / Spanish / Italian in my opinion.

Go.
What's the worst that can happen? It's not what you thought it was...England will still be here.
My brother lived in Germany for several years, when his children were young and it was a great place for them.

You'll never know unless you try it.