Dad thinks he should have the kids if I'm not available.

[Daniella66]

My ex has the kids dd13, ds14 every second weekend and one evening a week. He has a close loving relationship with them. He's a good father.
I always leave the kids with my mother who lives next door if I'm unavailable. Ex says he should be given that time when opportunities arise. (He lives 5 mins away) I don't agree. It's my time so I'll decide what happens in those instances.

He does if that's the court order

So many questions on this, and zero answers from op.

So your kids have a loving dad who wants to spend more time with them as you get far more time with them than he does and you are denying him that when there’s opportunity and he’s prepared to be flexible around when he has them. And you are doing that for what reason? Yep, I’d go back to court too if I was him and possibly even ask for 50-50.

it doesn’t mean your parents can’t have them sometimes but why not ask him sometimes and give him those opportunities to be with his kids more?

I phrased this badly when I dismissed the court as a bunch of strangers. The court decision does, of course, matter. Not just because it is legally binding but because the court (hopefully) steps in and sees what is best for the children at a time when the parents are too blinded by their own unhappiness to see it clearly themselves.

But this court decision was made a long time ago. In an ideal world, two loving parents would be able to move past their inability to co-operate and would allow their arrangements to evolve as their children’s needs change. Hopefully moving past their own hurt.

If a court reviewed the situation now, I suspect they would make a new arrangement, empowering your children and giving their father the opportunity to be part of their lives at times when you can’t.

What I was trying to say is that you seem to be clinging on to this judgement like a life raft. The judgement should not trump common sense at this stage. Going back to court would be unpleasant for everyone, so why not be a thoughtful person and co-operate?

Imagine how you would feel if you were in your children’s, or your husband’s, position, and go from there.

Yes, the more is that the op restricts the time and the ex is having to threaten court. I think finances come into play here (she’d lose out if he had them more)

He only has them 8 days a month.
rules can change. Nothing in life stays the same. It’s ok to be flexible. You said he’s a good dad. Try to soften a bit.

Have you never asked this kind of question? What happens if your mum has other plans?

I agree with starting to give the kids some agency over which parent they are spending their time with. It may avoid a damaging (expensive, stressful) court process and build a path to their future adult relationship with their separated parents.

Unless there's some underlying reason that you're not sharing, if they have a good relationship with him it doesn't seem like there's a good reason for him to not take them when you're not able to watch them. If you're not able to watch them anyway why does it matter if they're with him or your mom especially if he lives close by so it's not like you would really have to do much logistically to make it work. Honestly just based on the information you've given you sound like you're just being petty and there's not really a good reason to not let them go with him. I think maybe you should ask your kids what they want since they're old enough and think about what would be best for them not just what would be best for you.

A lot can change in 8 years. A man has a right to spend time with his kids. Obviously none of us know the the whole situation but unless he's abusive or a danger to the kids or they say they don't want more time with him then there's no reason for you to not try to work with him other than just wanting to stick it to him for whatever reason. That kind of attitude will end up harming your kids in the end if you keep that kind of attitude toward their dad. Co parenting works best if you both work together for what's best for your kids.

So 8 years ago, when they were 6 and 7, and involved actual parenting, he agreed to 2 nights a fortnight and an evening a week. Now they’re older, more independent, and easier to parent he suddenly wants to step up. Shocker. And someone PP think you’re the nasty one!

That said, ultimately you need to do what’s best for them, and if that’s slightly increased contact every now and again then that’s that really.

Or maybe he fought his backside off in court against a clearly unreasonable mother? She says he agreed in court... that's not usually how it works, usually the judge just decides. If they could agree then it wouldn't have needed court.

The court order of 8 yrs ago, is a pretty standard one from taht timeframe. Where each parent gets every2nd weekend and the non residential parent gets one day a week too. Thankfully it's moving towards a more equal split but at aged 5 and 6 it probably still wouldn't be full 50/50.

It also would be reasonable to think that the Father's request now is actually triggered by a mother who is leaving her kids with alternative childcare more frequently than before (or ate at least more frequently than he was aware of).

You just sound like a bitter ex tbh. The kids are yours and his. Not yours. Why not just let their father have them?!

Ah yes. He’s a man so he must be a shit parent by default. If you look through OP’s posts she’s completely intransigent and closed off to giving him a fair shake, regardless of what her kids may want, even though he says he wants them more. You only have to look at her reasoning - mum is next door. So much more convenient than having to drop them off five minutes down the road - even though at 13 and 14 they’re perfectly capable of making their own way there. At 5 and 6 when the court order was agreed, they would have had to be taken there each time. I suspect this was the major factor (possibly along with the financial aspect) and it was OP who got what she wanted in court, not her ex.

Hope he wins, it's quite clear why he divorced you.

And look what happened when he asked for more access

Given the ages of the kids, I'm assuming "if I'm not available" means overnights, not just a couple of hours. In which case I think, yes, most of the time dad should be asked if he'd like them to stay if you're away. If he says no, then of course they could stay at their grandparents. I assume you'd want a similar arrangement if dad decided he was unavailable to have them during 'his time'?

You've got every other weekend, and one night a week without the kids, so tbh I can't see that this would be happening often, unless there's some undisclosed info here that's going to lead into the kids not being allowed to be left for more than ten minutes or something. I know sometimes we don't get a choice in when we're away, but I can't see that happening more than a couple of times a year, so it's not like it'd majorly change the custody agreement, and in any case you're only a few years off it being irrelevant and the kids being able to decide where they want to be for themselves.

Unless there's some undisclosed stuff going on, the other parent saying 'ill have the kids if you're out' is 100% reasonable and helpful, and should be sorted long before it gets to the point of threatening court!

I suspect @Daniella66 isn't coming back to the thread - she hasn't had the answers she wanted.

Sometimes, yes, that seems fair.
It is also fair that the grandparents get to see them.

The last thing you want is for your children to decide, at short notice, to leave the care of grandparents and walk about with friends. Are your children trustworthy?

It should be reciprocal. You could be given the chance to have the children if he is hiring a sitter etc too.

Absolutely agreed. I think the compromise here is down to timing given the kids ages.

For example if OP is out for 30mins - 2hours, I'd say it's reasonable the kids can be left alone without adult supervision? Assuming no nuances. Anything up to 5/6 hours maybe a combination of staying home or nan popping in or them going in to nans. But I think of its full day or overnights then it's perfectly acceptable that they'd be with their other parent?

My guess is the OP is leaving out alot of details. My best guess is that she's gotten a newfound social life or changed working hours or something... perfectly fine and reasonable but of course the Dad should get the benefit of extra time with his well loved kids if the mother regularly isn't available. And obviously vice versa if he was unavailable for periods. Something had to have triggered thos change from him.

It's clear you are being deliberately obstructive to the kids having a relationship with their father due to your feelings about him from the fact that you haven't even considered asking the kids before asking mumsnet to try and get approval for your actions and from your replies when anyone disagrees with you.

The court agreement from 8 years ago was made as a minimum requirement for the care of young children based on circumstances at the time and in no way prevents the other parent from seeing them more when you aren't available to care for them, especially now they are older.

If your availability has changed since the original court intervention, as your ability to care for them for the periods in question is now different a court would very much be in support changing this agreement if he takes it that far, so you really need to consider your actions here carefully.

My sister acted the same way so I have seen this type of scenario in person as a third party and its not good at all, you need to put your children first and get over yourself, you are an adult, act like one.

It really is horrific when you see one parent actively preventing their kids having a better relationship with the other because of tensions between the two when they have proven for years that that it is a safe and caring environment for the children. You are actively blocking your kids from seeing one of their parents more without even asking their opinions because you don't like him at their expense.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if you bad mouth him to them or in front of them even 8 years later to try and influence their opinion of him to match yours.

This.

You do sound like you have another reason for being quite so obstructive otherwise it doesn't make sense to me. Perhaps he's let you down in the past or the divorce was very acrimonious. Did you regard the custody battle as win for you which you don't want to now acceed ground on?

But a kid of 6 and a kid of 14 have very different needs. If he's 5 mins away it makes sense for him to be more involved, perhaps that wasn't always the case, who knows as you don't say but situations and people do change/evolve and you've not said anything that would make us think he's not a good dad now, even if you might think his priorities were wrong in the past.

My ex cheated on me when DD was a baby and we split up, I got main custody and he got every other weekend etc. He was a pain in the arse back then. But that was 14 years ago and it takes a lot of energy to hold on to bitterness and anger so I've let it go, now I'm just grateful not to be still with him frankly!! Now he lives locally, she is 14 and goes round after school sometimes or if she's going out and it's more convenient she'll just tell me - "I'm going to dad's tonight" and I go "fine, see you tomorrow". Doesn't mean she's chosing him over me or loves me any less. I have no agenda to enforce an agreement that is now so old it's not relevent and me and her dad communicate collegiately in the joint interests of the child.

The sky has not fallen on either of our heads because of this and no points are being scored. It's a lot pleasanter for everyone.

"He's the one trying to break the agreement"? It really just sounds as though you're using a rulebook to minimise the amount of time they get with their Dad and you feel that it's somehow unfair if he gets a minute more than his time allowance.
This jealously-protected "my time" really doesn't count if you're unavailable for them.
And why surprised that "you ladies" think this way? Sounds like a slightly different agenda here.
But bottom line, ask the kids. They're old enough to decide.

I agree, @Grampy60 - @Daniella66 needs to accept that, as the children grow up, the arrangements may well need to change, and making everyone stick to the rules that suited them when they were small may just cause upset now.

It is the children whose needs and feelings matter here - the parents need to act like grown ups about it all.

I very much doubt @Daniella66 will be back given that we "ladies" didnt all immediately tell her that she was right and her husband was being a shit.

If he was so inclined he could actually accuse her of parental estrangement, or go back to court to change things - which WILL involve the children now they are old enough to have a say. It will not go the way she seems to think it should.