To think the most shocking thing about James VDB's death is...

[Hitthebestbooth]

...that a famous actor, recognised worldwide for his role in Dawson's Creek (putting this in the first lines for the benefit of MNetters who love to comment 'who??' on these threads) struggled to pay for his cancer treatment? His death has left his family 'out of funds'.

Now, James Van der Beek had enough fame and affection from fans that a Go Fund Me has raised a lot to support his family already. But there must be countless families across America who are ruined by medical bills - if Dawson couldn't pay for his cancer treatment, how do non-famous people in ordinary jobs cope? What do their families do after they've been crippled by the costs and still lose their loved one along with their homes and security for their children?

As a millennial, I was so sad to read of James' death. I loved Dawson's Creek. But it makes me very afraid for a future where Farage gets his hands on the NHS and we find ourselves in this position too. I have plenty of bad experiences with our healthcare system and am not saying it's perfect. But if I or my husband are diagnosed with cancer tomorrow, we won't have to sell our possessions or ask friends and family for money or risk leaving our kids with no home after treatment costs. There are plenty of wealthy people out there eager to take the NHS apart and sell it off, and for all people say we'd get a European system and it would be improved, it seems far more likely that capitalist greed will win out and we'll actually get an American model.

James Van der Beek's death highlights just how ruinous that model is. He spent his illness selling off memorabilia and trying to raise money. He died knowing his family's finances were left decimated. And he was someone with more resources than most. It's a sobering indictment of how bad things can get, and I am truly afraid that a Reform government would put us all in that dystopian scenario.

There are all kinds of options I could put for a poll but I'm just trying to make it really simple.

YABU - US healthcare is fine
YANBU - US healthcare is a terrifying prospect

I am sure I have read that medical bills are the largest cause of bankruptcy in the US. I have also seen articles where someone without health insurance but with a treatable condition has died because they simply could not afford the treatment, as well as those with chronic conditions such as diabetes halving their prescribed medication so they can afford it.

Honestly, I'm not sure my post is entirely hopeful. I don't enjoy the prospect of violence, and once you've opened the door to that kind of societal instability, you can't predict where it might lead.

But the things you mention are exactly why I think it's probably coming. The rich have access to a first-rate education, but they never seem to actually use it. They don't study history. They don't apply common sense. They all just want to stuff their faces with a piece of the pie. They all think they can keep turning the screws on ordinary people, little by little, because every time they squeeze a little more out of us and get away with it, they're emboldened to try again.

The problem is, it's like cracks in the dam. The pressure is building, and we can all hear it creaking. It might look sound, but the whole structure could give way very suddenly, and there's no way of knowing which crack will be the one to bring it all down.

Right now, we're all sitting underneath it, watching the drip, drip, drip.

Its sad that he died of cancer at a young age but if its true that the family are claiming they are short of money and could you Go Fund me I wouldnt fund it. If someone outside of the celebrity world put a Go Fund Me Page to enable their six children to stay in private education something has gone horribly wrong with financial planning.

Yikes, no I didn't mean I took hope from the Mangione case! I meant hopeful that you're right that people in the UK would not stand for a US healthcare system and could prevent its introduction. Without anyone getting shot - like medical bankruptcy, gun violence is another American feature I don't wish to see replicated.

Brits are very naive about the European healthcare as its referred to here, even though most countries have different systems.

The French system? It's collapsing just as badly as the NHS. Doctors and nurses are as run down as those here.

What is killing our health systems is to a large degree the poor lifestyle choices we make.

You believe that electorate is rational and sufficient majority have two brain cells to rub together. They consistently prove they aren't / don't

Both dentistry and pet insurance show the way farage wants to take health.

but many people are fixated on vulnerable people in small boats and don’t look at any of the rest of it

What is killing our health systems is to a large degree the poor lifestyle choices we make.

And an ageing population. And expecting a nationally funded health service (whether UK or a European model) to cover absolutely everything including very expensive cutting edge drugs and technologies. It’s not sustainable. And due to demographics this problem is only going to get worse.

IMO we need to have a conversation about limiting what is available on the NHS. That’s not an easy conversation but it’s better than sticking heads in the sand and having hidden limits (gatekeeping, endless waiting lists, poor care due to overstretched resources) instead.

I had Bupa over through work, yes a benefit in kind, but there were exclusions…. I’d had a hip replacement done privately. It’s all good, but if it needed a further look or went wrong (as they may do after 15-20 years) it would not be covered.

Farage is never going to have enough electoral support to win a majority in Parliament.

That’s what many people thought about Brexit - voters couldn’t be so stupid as to vote for something barely thought through and with lots of potential pitfalls, based only on a few unbelievable promises and a dash of jingoism.

Turns out yes the voters can be that stupid.

DH is a senior manager in the NHS and would agree the major issue is the aging population, MIL and my Dad have (in their 80s) had more use of the NHS in the past 5 years than the preceding 80. They’ve had more time in hospital than the rest of our collective families put together, and by some margin. Not sure what the answer is but with statins and modem medicine extending life expectancy. It’s only going to get worse.

Every vote he has won has always been a protest, including Brexit. His support is very shallow but in European elections and the referendum, enough votes were cast in large regions, or across the UK in a low turnout election to give him the win. Even the seats won at the general election were in low turnout areas where people feel very hard done by economically.

He is never going to win in more affluent areas or in areas with high numbers of graduates. The Tory vote is in more danger from the LibDems than Reform.

The next election isn't for at least 2 years and could be further away. I'm not saying that Labour or the Tories will win it, but Farage won't win it either and it's very unlikely that he would have enough seats that any other party would want to go into coalition with him.

Added to that is the ageing demographic of Reform voters who will be dead at the next election and that the cost of living crisis is already being relieved. I know you won't believe me but the increase in minimum wage and the removal of the two child benefit cap in April, as well as a significant drop in heating and electricity bills, will mean people won't feel as poor as they do right now. When people feel comparatively richer they stop caring so much about immigration.

This is a smart post. Somebody in the States working in a fairly mundane job that happened to have a really good benefits package and had health coverage that didn't have huge deductibles and hard limits on certain kinds of expenses would be in a far better situation than somebody who is having to fund their own health insurance. An actor is de facto self-employed.

I do sort of agree with you. But I’m not able to get critical illness cover due to a long term chronic health condition. Even though it isn’t linked to earlier death, even though I’m working FT, never had time off due to it. Been through all options with various brokers and had to settle for something that costs a fortune but only covers me for a few limited conditions.

I can’t understand or have no way of knowing where all that money went, when he was at the height of his career? His fee for The Rules of Engagement (filmed in 2001) must have been in the high six figure ball park, enough to buy outright a big-ish house. $770k per season of Dawson Creek. How could he have ended up renting?

Yes it’s interesting. The USA champions itself as the land of the entrepreneur, the risk takers, the small business that might just make it big. And yet, their health system encourages people to stick with safe employment for the insurance, rather than forge out on their own.

Read "still not safe" by Wears and Sutcliffe. Major safety failings are not unique to the UK

"Froggy little man"...! Brilliant 👏🏻 sums him up quite excellently!

I believe he does (or rather his estate does) own a property in Beverley Hills. They rented the ranch they live at to test out rural living. So it’s not like he doesn’t have any assets. The problem is that his huge medical bills will eat up the property’s value.

Surely selling the house would have been a better option rather than struggling and when that money is gone it’s at that stage you’d sell memorabilia and crowd fund - am I missing something here?

Did she really do that?! God I loved her before but now she’s elevated to almost saint status.

Yes I agree but I don’t know the full facts. Maybe it is heavily mortgaged. Maybe the article I read is wrong.

It seems the memorabilia was sold to raise money for a cancer charity, which is noble but seems misguided.

It's just jobs for friends, not candidacy for sainthood.

Those jobs would have gone to other struggling actors anyway.

We have a friend who is fighting recurring cancer (we’re in the US) and what we’ve learnt from him is that even with good health insurance, which he has, some treatments aren’t covered. It’s like the NHS, they won’t always pay for the latest, very expensive treatments.

Our friend has been having an experimental treatment for the last two years that seems to be keeping the cancer at bay, but he has to pay for it. It wouldn’t surprise me if James was in a similar position-the conventional treatments weren’t working so they tried treatments that weren’t covered. His poor family to lose him so young. 💐