To think the most shocking thing about James VDB's death is...

[Hitthebestbooth]

...that a famous actor, recognised worldwide for his role in Dawson's Creek (putting this in the first lines for the benefit of MNetters who love to comment 'who??' on these threads) struggled to pay for his cancer treatment? His death has left his family 'out of funds'.

Now, James Van der Beek had enough fame and affection from fans that a Go Fund Me has raised a lot to support his family already. But there must be countless families across America who are ruined by medical bills - if Dawson couldn't pay for his cancer treatment, how do non-famous people in ordinary jobs cope? What do their families do after they've been crippled by the costs and still lose their loved one along with their homes and security for their children?

As a millennial, I was so sad to read of James' death. I loved Dawson's Creek. But it makes me very afraid for a future where Farage gets his hands on the NHS and we find ourselves in this position too. I have plenty of bad experiences with our healthcare system and am not saying it's perfect. But if I or my husband are diagnosed with cancer tomorrow, we won't have to sell our possessions or ask friends and family for money or risk leaving our kids with no home after treatment costs. There are plenty of wealthy people out there eager to take the NHS apart and sell it off, and for all people say we'd get a European system and it would be improved, it seems far more likely that capitalist greed will win out and we'll actually get an American model.

James Van der Beek's death highlights just how ruinous that model is. He spent his illness selling off memorabilia and trying to raise money. He died knowing his family's finances were left decimated. And he was someone with more resources than most. It's a sobering indictment of how bad things can get, and I am truly afraid that a Reform government would put us all in that dystopian scenario.

There are all kinds of options I could put for a poll but I'm just trying to make it really simple.

YABU - US healthcare is fine
YANBU - US healthcare is a terrifying prospect

I don't think there's anything logically compelling in that hypothetical scenario. People have speculated all kinds of things about what he did or didn't earn on Dawson's Creek, how much he worked, what money he made and how he spent it but none of us know any of the many variables. And if someone discredits James VDB on the basis that they think he was feckless, it doesn't detract from the shitshow that is American healthcare and the disaster it wreaks on families and individuals all the time.

It's a really comforting delusion of the right wing to imagine that catastrophe only comes to those who deserve it by not being virtuous or sensible or responsible enough and therefore there is no need for a safety net to exist. But the truth is that ill health, disease and disability can come to any one of us out of a clear blue sky. Health insurance companies are ruthless and venal, and American people suffer the consequences every day. It's a brutal and inhumane system.

My close friend died of bowel cancer aged 39 a few years ago. She had good nhs treatment at the Christie in Manchester but there were still many lines of treatment unavailable to her unless she paid. She was a single mother so couldn’t/wouldn’t cash in to pay for those, which would buy her time but not cure her.

I have two thoughts on this:

1. the US health insurance system leads to terrifying inequalities and hardships when people are at their most vulnerable (and is the prime reason I do not want a Reform government here). Employers are given too much power and people have to keep on working through serious illness and old age just to ensure a decent level of treatment.

2. famous people or their relatives using JustGiving-type charity fundraising makes me profoundly uncomfortable and just feels wrong. It's another type of societal unfairness. Charity should go the most needy, not to the least embarrassed to ask or most high-profile, media savvy and photogenic. Celebrities buying expensive health treatments beyond the reach of ordinary people and then asking the public to ensure their families can maintain the same lifestyle just doesn't sit right. Charity flowing upwards from the poor to the rich is all kinds of wrong. There will be people suffering simultaneous grief and sudden poverty who will never have the platform to be given hundreds of thousands of dollars.

@Fibrous Your poor friend and her children. 💐 That’s exactly the position our friend is in- he’s had all the conventional treatments and is trying an experimental one to extend his life. I really doubt that he’d get his current treatment on the NHS, he’d have to go private.

Cancer treatment in the US is hideously expensive. James v/d Beek was diagnosed three years ago, I can easily see how three years of treatment would have decimated his family’s finances. In the US, healthcare debt is a thing, leading to homelessness, bankruptcy and suicide.

@LesserSootyOwl What European model would that be? You do know that Europe is not a country and every member state has their own healthcare system. I’m tired of people lazily pointing to a ‘model’ they clearly know very little of.

Absolutely this. My DH has a colleague who always says (in response to the Brexit vote): "Never underestimate the power of stupid people..."

It follows that it could happen again with Farage but I truly hope it doesn't.

I don't disagree with you. The Van der Beeks have a lot of celebrity friends though and I would imagine that they're donating. I wouldn't personally donate to something like that and no one who can't afford it has to. Normal, non-famous people set up Go Fund Mes to pay medical bills; it seems like a very common thing to do and I think extremely normalised in a country where people are put in such dire straits from paying for healthcare.

@BruFord sorry about your friend. Yes, unfortunately a lot of cancer treatment is still experimental (due to cancer being a broad term for a huge variety of disease under active research requiring different approaches). So anything new is going to be hideously expensive, unless you meet the niche criteria for clinical trials. The NHS can’t and won’t fund it all. I think especially in younger people, the cancer is quite aggressive so you need the latest treatments for a best shot at recovery. If you don’t have private insurance, even in the UK, you can find yourself trying to make difficult decisions like remortgaging your house, or just letting nature take its course.

I don’t have private health insurance but it’s certainly something I’m considering once my finances are in better shape. Seeing the ravaging and painful effects of cancer up close has made me clean up my lifestyle massive over the last few years.

That's truly shocking. I was so sad to hear this news, big Dawson Creek fan back in the day as well!

I didn’t know this, that’s so heartwarming.

Her grandfather was Leader of the Labour Party and social reformer so she obviously shared the same ideals. The Lansbury estate in Poplar is named after him.

Agree. They need some sort of system where your vote is worth 2x if you have an undergraduate degree.

@Hitthebestbooth He wouldn’t have been the first self-employed person to have sold a big asset that year, in the context of a pandemic in which a relatively small amount of actors worked. Also, he was in a hit TV show for five years, made by Warner Brothers. We’re talking big bucks.

@EsmaCannonball I don’t entirely disagree, but when you’re on the bones of your arse, have six kids to feed, no assets, rent to pay then why not get money from a fan base and Hollywood associates? She may thinking of saving for college costs as well. You do what you need to do to keep a roof over your head.

Yep.

It really, really depends on the type of cancer.

My son's cancer was very treatable in the vast majority of cases as first line treatment is incredibly effective in 90% of cases which thankfully included him. If that first line treatment doesn't work? Prognosis is poor and unfortunately, there just isn't much they can do and reaching remission again is unlikely. There are some newer options offered via the NHS now such as CAR-T therapy which has had some great success but sadly isn't an option for every single type of cancer.

and an issue with childhood cancer specifically is that chemotherapy is made for adult bodies, not children so unfortunately, it also isn't unusual for the chemotherapy to work but it to also either permanently damage the child's body or sadly, cause the death of a child.

Having lived in the States, I can tell you this is something Americans want - they actually say “Why should my taxes pay for other people’s illnesses?”. They’ve been collectively brainwashed to think that the American Dream is have a non-existence work life balance and only being out for themselves healthcare-wise.

You're hugely naive. Many people can barely afford food - how will they afford medical insurance!

YANBU that US healthcare is shocking.

YABU to think most average families are struggling financially after a family death.

To be honest, I sympathised more with his situation before I found out him and his wife are antivaxxers. They spread dangerous information that could contribute towards the death of children and adults. My sympathy has run dry I’m afraid.

I do donate to local cancer charities each month to support those affected by cancer and the death of loved ones. A close family friend died early 40s, his wife and kids were left with debts. Unfortunately for them, then didn’t know lots of famous people, and didn’t have a huge house they could sell to release equity.

Most Americans dealing with chronic illness or needing paliative care are age 65+ and eligible for Medicare. Which is awfully similar to NHS. That's how they cope.

My foster sister (age late 50s, lives in California) has a life-limiting genetic health condition; she is on a kind of disabled persons health care package. She is a home-owner but her home is not an asset that gets considered.

Then I would argue that if you can’t afford to feed yourself you shouldn’t have started a family in the first place!

Your last paragraph was my point really - how bad is it for people without the resources the Van der Beeks had to fall back on? Presumably pretty dreadful.

Absolutely agree. My daughter is a nurse. She pays her extortionate rent along with her bills and food (cooked from scratch). She has no holidays. She doesn't go out unless it's part of a Christmas or birthday gift from me. I've cut her hair the last few times. She certainly doesn't get beauty treatments. It's frightening how people are so out of touch with how tough life can be for lower earners nowadays.

I voted YABU, not because I think the US system is desirable, but because I’m so tired of the bullshit trope that we have the NHS or US style healthcare. They are both extremes of the system, and almost every wealthy country in the world has something in the middle with a safety net but some element of insurance and personal responsibility in there. Neither the NHS or the US system are fit for purpose, we should be looking at Europe, Australia, Singapore for better models.

Yep absolutely. Since cancer incidence is 1 in 2 people these days, I'm hoping for a bog standard, age appropriate, well studied and treatable cancer if I'm in that 50%. Anything rare or too early for routine detection is generally a high way to a shit end.

Sorry to heart about your son, but glad it was treatable. Yeah a lot of chemo is nasty stuff so you want it when you're old enough for the long term side effects to just blend into all your old age side effects. Still, the treatments and outcomes are improving all the time. As are the diagnostics. Just gotta keep eating plants, exercising, getting lots of sleep and hope for the best.

Thanks.

It's actually amazing at how far treatments have come for some cancers. In the 80's, my son would've been terminal with no hope but I remember them telling me when he was first diagnosed that if your child has to have cancer, you want it to be this one.

I don't agree. He didn't die suddenly, they could have moved the kids to different schools ages ago - something which people have been doing for financial reasons since the beginning of time. We all need to take some responsibility for our life choices and finances.

Surely someone would have had life insurance with six children?

Well the fact he didn't die suddenly is why they ran out of money - three years of cancer treatment in the US is devastatingly expensive. That's the entire point, which seems to have sailed over your head in your eagerness to berate a dead man about whose finances you can only speculate and assume. My point is that no one should be ruined by having to pay for cancer treatment. No one should lose their homes because of medical bills. But it happens every day in America - not because people are stupid or irresponsible but because a handful of greedy wealthy people want even more and are happy for countless others to suffer and die so that they can amass yet more and more and more. It's a monstrously cruel system.