"I'm failing in my duty as a middle class parent by not making DC play an instrument"

[ToothSmush]

This is what a friend said to me (in jest, but it has hit a nerve), when I said that the DC don't get any music lessons.

AIBU to not force the DC into playing an instrument?

This friend has different DC playing flute, guitar, drums etc and expressed suprise when I said I was being led by my DC. They haven't shown much interest in music but are mad keen on football so that is their main extra curricular activity.

Is it true that most middle class parents gently force their DC to play an instrument because of all the social advantages it brings?

Part of this is because I was forced to play the piano as a child, only doing grades - and hated having to play the same classical pieces for months at a time. I gave up as a teen, but ironically I have rediscovered the joy of the piano in middle age and now love trying to play music that I l actually like! I can only do this because I learnt the basics as a child.

So maybe I'm doing the DC a disservice by not forcing them?

@TheGoddessAthena You may well not be interested in music (it is extremely unusual to not like ANY music - I’ve never met anyone IRL like this) but that doesn’t mean your children wouldn’t be, or that you shouldn’t give them the opportunity to be different from you. I wasn’t into swimming as a kid and don’t like the water now but my children still have lessons.

One of dc played, the other - no way
He was one of the few of his peers who didnt was every child in his class was expected to .
I absolutely felt judged.
ds was judged for liking football. However, his other sports- cricket, fishing, golf, archery- were tolerated by the parents who judged!
I maintained that much can be learned from sport- discipline, how to lose etc.
He played cricket in Australia ( paid) and thus had a additional life experience via sport. Stil loves it .

The universities one always makes me laugh. They don’t give a monkey’s about playing instruments, unless they are applying for a music degree. Even the likes of Oxbridge are only impressed by extra curriculars that are directly related to the subject they are applying to study. All those personal statements banging on about being in the school orchestra and Duke of Edinburgh awards just make admissions tutors roll their eyes.

But this thread is about parents MAKING their children play an instrument. Obviously parents should nurture the interests of their children whether that's gardening or rugby. None of mine ever expressed an interest in playing anything so why would it even occur to me to "make" them?

Two of my kids are self taught musicians, each picking instruments up around age 12/13. One didn't have any formal training until 17 but were accepted into orchestras before then. If they want to, they'll do it.

They've never been interested in sport.

Didn't force music like I didn't force football! A hobby is a hobby and should be enjoyed!

I am a bit taken aback at how often the OP uses the words “force” or “forcing”. Even when my children were 5 and 6, I could not have forced them to practise if they really didn’t want to.

Realistically, pretty much everyone is going to get judged for some choice they make. I got judged for not doing many out of school activities with my children. If your child doesn’t want to learn to play an instrument that is fine. But I must admit that so am sometimes a bit surprised when I meet someone who has no one in the family learning to play.

Someone upthread said that sport is the equal of music in terms of accomplishment. I’m sure it is but I am sometimes taken aback at how much sport dominates the lives of those who do it. A friend’s son plays football (not at a particularly high level) and the coach is clear that football comes before everything else. I also know too many children who have done a sport at a competitive level and then got cut from the squad - one gymnast was training four evenings a week and a whole weekend and then was devastated when she was cut. Although you are expected to practise, music doesn’t seem to eat the lives of those who participate in the way that sport does.

I can see why piano is often the first instrument but in a way it is a pity. If you don’t have a piano at home (I didn’t, growing up) then it isn’t going to work. Plus a pianist won’t be in an orchestra unless they are fantastic. In many ways, a smaller melodic instrument that can be carried to and from school (like a flute) is a bit more accessible.

A piano is also impractical in many homes. My front room is 12ft by 13. Where on earth would a piano go?

Do you only learn these qualities from playing a musical instrument then?
Very bizarre statement.

OP my 20 year old ds was never interested (ALL his friends in our MC group did at least one type of instrument). Looking at that group now, not a single one of them took it any further after primary school.
I think of all the money wasted tbh

My brother is a dentist and they were very interested in his Grade 8 violin as it showed he had excellent manual dexterity. He also ran his own Youth Orchestra for a while which was certainly considered an impressive demonstration of leadership skills, so it certainly isn't irrelevant.

If he's not interested it's pointless to try to force it!

I would hope that DD wants to play an instrument at some point but if she doesn't want to I won't try to make her. She currently does singing lessons.

Not sure why class is relevant - working class people play instruments too you know!

My (working class) parents forced me to learn the piano. I largely hated it.

So we gave DD a choice. She has piano lessons for a while but hated it, so dropped it.

She has singing lessons because she loves singing (and is very talented in my opinion).

I think it should be led by your kids' preferences to be honest. As should any hobby.

He’ll what note the patient is squealing.

My son is only two, but swimming is mandatory for me, I'll be doing a language too (Spanish) informally.

Music and sport will be interest-driven, but my parents are interested in taking him to their choir practice once he reaches admission age of four.

I think there's a real benefit in communal singing, so I think this is a good middle ground.

That was part of my point. I didn’t have a piano growing up because we didn’t have an available wall for one to go against.

It’s being framed as “forcing” but most children need to have the chance to experience something before knowing whether they are interested in it. If you personally don’t like or value music and never have it on in the house, why and how would you expect your kids to develop an interest in it?

Most parents do not wait or expect their children to show an interest in maths or brushing their teeth or learning to swim but they encourage them to do those things. If the child then wants to enter maths competitions or swimming galas then great - you can support them in that - but most people agree that a basic level of competence is important for everyone.

Music - as with swimming - is on the National curriculum but has been devalued and defunded to such an extent that you really can’t achieve any kind of competence these days without parental involvement outside school. And that is a big shame.

Neither of my children have shown any interest in learning an instrument, and I won't be encouraging them to choose something they have zero interest in doing.
I was forced to start learning to play the piano when I was 8, because it was something my mum wished she'd had the opportunity to do. My parents must have spent thousands of pounds over the years on lessons. I have no natural aptitude towards music, I hated being forced to practice everyday and I haven't played a note since I was finally allowed to quit when I was 17! I honestly don't think my life would have been any different if I'd not learnt (apart from my parents would have saved money and I would have been happier!).
What used to really piss me off was my mum would shout at me if she felt I'd played the wrong note (despite having no musical experience at all, & it being the correct note), just because she didn't like how the piece of music sounded. FFS!

Re "Forcing"

DS ASKED to get lessons for two different instruments age 8 and then 9.

We absolutely wouldn't have pushed it if he hadn't have requested it. He absolutely loves both though I do wish he'd practice more.

You don't have to make your child learn an instrument, a sport, a scouting type activity but having a mixture of opportunities and experiences can help to open doors and lead to other interests. My siblings and I all learnt an instrument and while I rubbish at the one I did, I'm grateful that I did that because being able to read music really helped with my singing and choir which I've continued in various different ways through all 4 decades of my life. Doing a brass instrument meant making friends in bands and orchestra. Some siblings taught themselves guitar after doing a different instrument and then enjoyed playing in bands as a social thing as teens and young adults.

I don't live in a middle class area and we don't have a middle class income and our children's schools haven't had a majority of middle class children so mine were one of maybe 3-10 children in the whole school at any given time who were learning an instrument. Partly due to the cost (even though it's subsidised by school, at their high school it's free when you do GCSE music or you're on FSM, we've had instruments donated on loan from a local charity or second hand) but I think mainly because it wasn't the norm for the parent so it's not something they particularly see any value in.

There are loads of good reasons for learning an instrument. But there are also loads of good reasons for doing a team sport and that's not for everyone and some children hate it. Hobbies and interests should be things your child enjoys in their spare time. If you don't want them to learn music and if they don't want to learn music, don't worry about it. It's not time limited - they can learn as an adult if they change their mind.

I wouldn;t force them, but I would strongly encourage them. Both my DC play instruments and music is absolutely central in their social lives. One is in a semi-pro band, the other runs an amateur choir and composes for fun.

It's such a gorgeous life-long skill and pleasure - socialable and solo. I wish my parents had encouraged me.

Wehad speech and drama lessons at school from age 7-11. Also my grandmother used to make us walk around with book on head to practise good posture

If you look at your very own example, you did it as a child and later on in your life you found the purpose for it- then you have gained something. Why wouldn’t you do the same for your child?
my kids play an instrument, they’re not particularly good at it BUT it’s really important for them to be exposed to a variety of things. Music, sports, hobbies, academics. A little bit of each.

I'm surprised by the inverted snobbery shown in this thread. I forced mine to play an instrument. They got to pick the instrument but they did have to. One got to grade 5 and stopped and the other grade 8+. It has undoubtedly had a major positive social impact to both. I am working class and we live in a deeply deprived area - yes getting to go to orchestra with the “nobs” (another posters term!) means they have friends who are middle class and aspirational. They literally don’t get to see that here- their school is full of kids who don’t value education, who scoff at learning and smoke drink and deal their way through life. (Not a reflection of all deprived areas or working class kids but it is a true reflection of the comprehensive schools here) so orchestra has given them access to middle class friends. There they learned how to code switch (switching between language patterns etc that lower classes have to do in many environment's) which they will need to in university. It has also given them something to do - rather than go to the park and vape with the other teens. It helped teach them resilience and the value of hard work. The eldest is going to uni this year and already knows two girls in the year above as they have been on the same orchestra circuit over the past few years. I’m not saying it alone did all this but it certainly helped.

I am only now starting to earn more and claw my way out of poverty at 40. I want better for my kids and have gone out of my way to encourage them to get out of this shit hole- learn enough to earn enough to not be stuck like me, my parents before and their parents before them. I’m not saying playing an instrument alone is enough to do that- but it is a very effective way for them to gain a social advantage they otherwise would have no way of accessing imo.

Sorry its been a busy day, and I'm a bit late back to this thread. Thanks for the varied opinions.

A lot of people commented on my use of the word "forced". I agree with a pp that for some non negotiable things in life, kids do need to be "forced" as they do not have the self discipline or foresight to do it themselves. So school needs to be "forced" I think everyone would agree to with, most likely swimming and learning to ride a bike too. The rest is up for debate... Does music fall into the category of non negotiable? It clearly does for some pp on here. If so, then yes you are "forcing" your child because you believe in the long term it will be a benefit.

The irony is, my youngest will actually sit at the piano and has asked for music books to teach themselves the basics of reading music. But won't do it often enough that I feel it is worth getting lessons. And I worry lessons might ruin their enjoyment - as it did for me. That is why it hit a nerve. I have a child who has shown a little bit of interest and aptitude, but I still think lessons would be too much at this point...am I doing them a disservice?

As I said, I play the piano fairly regularly now, so they see me doing it.

I'm comparison my oldest has not shown any real interest in sitting down at the piano.

But another worry is that computers etc have such a hold over kids these days, anything that seems even vaguely difficult will be rejected.

They do also do cubs/scouts as well as football.

I was a WC DC, made by my musically talented mother to take piano lessons.
I can say with certainty, that discounting the fleeting admiration of strangers for my tipsy rendition of The Entertainer on a pub piano (swiftly followed by disappointment that I couldn't give them some Oasis) the social benefits to me have been zero.
And if that was my mother's aim, she'd have been better spending her money on a ra ra skirt, shoes with bows on and highlights, so I could have been cool enough to get invited to Lisa Jenkins party. I did tell her. She wouldn't have it.