"I'm failing in my duty as a middle class parent by not making DC play an instrument"

[ToothSmush]

This is what a friend said to me (in jest, but it has hit a nerve), when I said that the DC don't get any music lessons.

AIBU to not force the DC into playing an instrument?

This friend has different DC playing flute, guitar, drums etc and expressed suprise when I said I was being led by my DC. They haven't shown much interest in music but are mad keen on football so that is their main extra curricular activity.

Is it true that most middle class parents gently force their DC to play an instrument because of all the social advantages it brings?

Part of this is because I was forced to play the piano as a child, only doing grades - and hated having to play the same classical pieces for months at a time. I gave up as a teen, but ironically I have rediscovered the joy of the piano in middle age and now love trying to play music that I l actually like! I can only do this because I learnt the basics as a child.

So maybe I'm doing the DC a disservice by not forcing them?

Do universities even CARE? I mean. Here's an application from Thomas or Sophie who is applying for Accounting, or Engineering. Something entirely unrelated to music. We absolutely must give him/her a place because they can play the trombone to grade 567! Seriously.

Also this idea that you are not "developing your brain" if you are not playing a musical instrument.

I think music lessons - on the right instrument for the child - have massive benefits and have the potential to be enjoyable for all children.

Not just because most people love music of some kind, but also because of the skills that mastering an instrument teaches - in discipline, focus, creativity, resilience, performance practice, and listening, teamwork etc. Particularly for very bright kids who find schoolwork easy, it’s a great way to teach them perseverance.

All children should be given the opportunity to learn an instrument that appeals to them (not just default piano, which is difficult and lonely and slow to make progress in). Obviously if they hate it they shouldn’t be forced to continue, but for my children it is more like learning to read or learning to swim - a life skill.

You sound very defensive OP - of course you don’t have to give your child any particular opportunity, but if they don’t try it you won’t know whether or not they will like it.

I didn't force mine but offered the option at primary school- one said yes, showed very little interest for about five years but plodded on with it, then had an explosion of interest and is off to study music at university. One said no, but later at secondary school decided to have lessons.
So I would never force a child to learn an instrument but I would be gently encouraging, they have both gained so much from their various music groups, music trips, productions etc although it has cost a fortune one way and another.

Agree that discipline and resilience are positive qualities to have. But you can develop those skills in a whole host of ways, not just by learning a musical instrument.

Do agree there's a Jane Austen throwback to it, that nice middle class girls and boys don't do things like football or musical theatre, they do something worthy like murdering Mozart pieces on a violin or flute.

The higher music grades are worth UCAS points, so they do have a direct impact on university applications.

And yes, there are different ways to gain the same skills, but music is a great way to combine so many things (academic, motor, social/emotional) - whether you are playing Mozart or Taylor Swift - I actually can’t think of another common kids extracurricular that ticks so many boxes in one, but willing to be corrected.

I don’t agree with forcing any child. My more musical one put herself forward at age 5 to learn the recorder. She then auditioned for the violin at age 7. Her choice. DD2 was not interested but did 3 types of dance classes because that’s what she enjoyed. Music is definitely more “academic”as reading music becomes a necessity. DD1 still sings in a choir. As music needs practice, it suits a certain type of dc. Forcing a child to do it will be pure misery. Most dc work out what they want to do and for some, it’s not much. For others, they engage with lots of things and it’s certainly better than screen time.

Is there still a Northern Ireland social scene with flutes in it?

Im not sure about that. My nice middle class 12 year old daughter is grade 5 piano, plays for a football academy and last year was the lead in her school musical 🤷🏻‍♀️. For me, it’s that we’re in a privileged position of being able to afford for them to pursue their interests, and this is what she has chosen to do.

I made my two do piano for a while. They hated it. Ironically they were both good at it. I think they would have preferred a young person actually teaching them how to play current songs.

Dsis made dniece do piano lessons for many years .
Dniece passed her Grade 8 exam and swore never to play the piano again
My three dcs all play the piano. However, only dd1 continues to play . The other two have said that they have ‘retired’ .

“Middle class”? Your friend sounds like a dick.

personally both mine play, because I think it’s nice to have the opportunity. It’s obvious not every child does, there wouldn’t be enough music teachers otherwise

My daughter is going through her grades but she also loves teaching herself things like Olivia Rodrigo and Taylor Swift songs. The joy of knowing how to read music is that you can play whatever you want!

I agree with you that those stereotypes aren't useful to anyone (if they exist). My DS age 16 plays football and the trombone and loves both.

Was just thinking the same.

If they show no interest then of course it’s not appropriate to push them. My DD was desperate to learn to play the piano. I’m happy to try and facilitate that as I DO think it is a fantastic instrument to be able to play and I massively regret giving up lessons when I was younger.

Now we fork out for lessons and have bought a piano I definitely do insist she practises.

I hadn’t thought about it from a university point of view (she’s 7).

The only one of my children who is playing and performing music regularly as a young adult didn't have lessons as a child (some of his siblings did, though we're not a musically talented family) but decided to learn in his twenties. He regrets the missed opportunity but accepts that he wouldn't have coped with music lessons before he had developed organisational skills and self-motivation as an adult.

I hate the way these threads all descend into 'what use is your grade 19 bassoon when you are landing a helicopter on an aircraft carrier' because making music is good for you and it's fun, can be social, and is a basic human instinct.

But there's no point by forcing anyone to do it just as there's no point trying to force kids to play a sport if they don't want to. I have practical experience of trying to 😂

I don't think that interests are coincidental though. I never play sport but I have been singing to and with the kids since they were tiny and now they are very musical and love music too. And these days I have enough money to encourage them to try all sorts of musical experiences so I do. The idea of it being my middle class duty to have them do it is really depressing quite honestly.

I quite like the Asian idea that first comes discipline, then comes freedom. It's wildly out of fashion in our culture today, to the extent that I think it's practically unworkable.

In an ideal world my children would have their music lessons as a non negotiable part of preparing to be a skilled adult human with the full range of capacity open to humans. Like writing fluently or knowing the rudiments of science. Yes it's boring to practice, yes you don't get much out of it for ages. But learning the structure of music, and the physical discipline of playing it well, the definition of "the more you put in the more you get out". It changes your brain and your ability to focus and concentrate and be in deep flow, in a way nothing else does.

I say in an ideal world because the way I parent my children isn't like that at all, (especially the PDA one arghhhh). But I think we have lost so much concentration and focus these days, I honestly don't know what my brain and personality would be like without the music lessons I had for 12 years.

I am very sad about it. I look at my children watching YouTube and I am sorry they are not more disciplined and bored - music learning, like other things like long walks through the countryside or reading 7 books a week, is something they just don't have the stamina for, and it's bad for them. Did I like doing my practice? Nope! I would have to force them, yes, and that forcing is so at odds with the rest of our world it would be cruel and unworkable.

But it's doing them no service to close off from them practically the highest human achievements, just because they're difficult and initially inaccesible.

And what about kids that worked at dance or gymnastics or sports? Surely the discipline and resilience is the same. Why is music considered superior?

I had mine learn but didn't put any pressure on them to do grades. I did it for the potential brain benefits and just in case they loved it or it was their thing. They played from about age 8 until the end of GCSEs but DD2 has come back to her instrument age 20 and I think she finds it therapeutic to play.

I don't think it is a middle class duty! But wish all.kids were given opportunities to play something for a few years in school - even if the ukulele or a drumming circle or something......

All mine had a go at one, made them do it a bit longer than they wanted, let them give up.

Playing for a football team holds so many life lessons, grassroots football is one of the best things there is for kids in the UK. Very snobby to suggest it is somehow less than music as a hobby.

I don’t think anyone thinks or says that music is superior to these things? It is certainly different, and you can learn different skills from it. Most children I know who are doing music also do plenty of sport (eg for my DS - swimming, football, climbing and running (junior park run).

Yes I agree with you. I don't think music is superior to sport or whatever.

it's not superior, it just does a thing to your brain and body that's different to what sport does and intellectually plus physically improving in a way nothing else is. Sport also does some good things to your body that nothing else does, but doesn't rewire your brain the same way.

It’s great for them if they want to but you shouldn’t force hobbies