"I'm failing in my duty as a middle class parent by not making DC play an instrument"

[ToothSmush]

This is what a friend said to me (in jest, but it has hit a nerve), when I said that the DC don't get any music lessons.

AIBU to not force the DC into playing an instrument?

This friend has different DC playing flute, guitar, drums etc and expressed suprise when I said I was being led by my DC. They haven't shown much interest in music but are mad keen on football so that is their main extra curricular activity.

Is it true that most middle class parents gently force their DC to play an instrument because of all the social advantages it brings?

Part of this is because I was forced to play the piano as a child, only doing grades - and hated having to play the same classical pieces for months at a time. I gave up as a teen, but ironically I have rediscovered the joy of the piano in middle age and now love trying to play music that I l actually like! I can only do this because I learnt the basics as a child.

So maybe I'm doing the DC a disservice by not forcing them?

I dont think it should be forced on them if they dont have an interest. But I think they should have the opportunity to try for a few weeks to see if they like it.

Mine are all very into music with 2 of them seriously wanting to go to music college. and pursue it as a career. They only play at all because a charity local to me provides the chance of free tuition to every child in a local school so that cost is never a barrier to children having access to music.
Mine have run with it and are playing at a high level but plenty fall by the wayside and dont continue. Which is fine, but I do think its important that they had the chance.

Without music tuition in schools we will see professional music becoming entirely the realm of the middle class and that is truly unfair.

Most of the higher ranking unis consider grades, not points.
Even those that use points normally require the points to be acquired via 3 A levels, or BTEC or other equivalent. There are very, very few that take into account UCAS points accrued by way of dance, music, LAMDA, lifeguarding or anything else.

As I’ve now said 3 times on this thread, I know someone where their points via music grades were factored into their Russell Group uni acceptance, not at the offer stage, but on results day, where it tipped the balance in their favour after they missed an A level grade. Their original offer was not expressed in points, but they were told that this was part of the rationale in giving them the place, and it meant they went to their first choice uni rather than their insurance.

This was in response to someone saying that music grades were completely irrelevant unless you study music.

Argh! No! Please do not encourage your child to become that man who gets his guitar out at parties.

My daughter had piano lessons since she was 3 and is 8 now. She was never bothered about practicing until a few years ago and we didn't force her as we didn't want to destroy any enthusiasm she had. Now she will sit down and "compose" and practice her pieces without much prompting. I think this is the way to go rather than forcing her to practice.

Instrument teacher here:
Dear parents,
Why would you expect your child to want to play an instrument when you don’t?
Take up the instrument yourself and inspire them!

Good point! One of mine wanted to play an instrument and it was suggested by their teacher, but we never forced them to go through the grades and it think it helped them to stick with it for relaxation, when other exams were tough. Music that you can use for yourself is well worth it.

I think many parents start off with music lessons, and we all did some at school (I did clarinet, my sister did french horn). Piano seems the most usual. My son did drums and sax.
But after a while if it’s a battle of wills in terms of practise why bother? Do any of your friends who may have been ‘forced’ to learn an instrument play it now? Even a friend of mine who willingly did grade 8 piano very rarely plays.
If the child is motivated great, but if not it’s a waste of money and I don’t think it teaches them anything other than how unfair the world is, which they will learn anyway.
And, as an aside, if your child is keen but doesn’t want to do the exams then don’t make them! I thought that’s just the way they did it here (I didn’t grow up in the UK) but my son found out after he quit due to exam stress that he could have continued without taking exams and wished he had!

No, you shouldn't pressure your children into doing something they do not wish to do for the bragging rights of it.

They play football and that's great.

I had never thought of encouraging DDs to take music lessons. The youngests' school had musicians come in and the children tried out instruments. She came home and said she wanted to learn the violin, much to our horror but we got stuck in and she became quite proficient. I was very sad when she stopped playing.

The eldest tried the piano as we had one at home but she was never very interested.

Practicing can be a hell of a challenge so I always feel children should have an interest otherwise it's never going to happen - the practicing that is

I followed my parents’ approach: throw a variety of opportunities at the kids and see what sticks. For us this has been different for each child. One plays a lot of of music to a high standard. Another plays none. One is involved in county level team sport. Another is into theatre and art. One has loved scouts, cadets, sailing and general outdoorsy stuff. They have all been offered the chance to try any of these.

I don't think it's anything to do with class and YABU to frame it like that. I believe it's more about finding something a child is good at and enjoys doing and the benefits that brings. Not every child is going to be good at sport and get picked for the teams, those kids deserve to shine at something too.

Dahling, you can play in an orchestra and mingle with other privileged nobs rather than the scumbags down the park 😆

I'm not saying everyone who learns music is a privileged nob ofc, but there is definitely a 'type' of parent, and yes there is a lot of 'forcing' from what I've seen - the kids aren't allowed to opt out.

In the same way kids aren’t really allowed to ‘opt out’ of school either I guess. Some things are ‘forced’ to some extent because often kids will take the easy route and not do things they find challenging. I wish my parents hadn’t let me opt out of my piano lessons just because I had to miss half an hour of Food Tech to go to them and I much preferred the doss lesson where we just messed around! I’m now trying to teach myself and it feels much harder as an adult when there’s always something else needing your attention.

I think it’s probably a question of priorities and how you frame things.

Learning an instrument is hard. Even professional musicians find practice and performance difficult but part of the benefit of music is showing and learning that if you persist you see rewards. Generally children need help and encouragement to persist before they can see and access the rewards and find the self-motivation. No one picks up a first instrument and can do it right away.

As parents, we do not allow our children to stop doing maths if they do not enjoy it, or to eat chocolate all day because they prefer that to a balanced diet, and no one ever talks about “forcing” their kids to have a regular bedtime or to wear the right clothes for the weather, as if you are doing them a disservice.

I am not saying children should be made to have lessons for years if they don’t enjoy it, but equally, they won’t know if they do properly enjoy it without support to try it for a sustained period (eg daily practice - 10 mins a day is enough, with a parent helping them practice - for one term). Signing up for lessons and then not supporting your child in regular practice is just setting them up to fail. Of course many parents don’t want that commitment either and that is their choice.

As a child I had to do one sport and one instrument, but I came from a very working class household so it wasn’t a middle class thing, I think it was more just to broaden my skills maybe. I’d encourage my children to learn an instrument because their dad plays several and I play two, so it would be a nice thing for us to be able to do with them. I certainly don’t deem it any kind of middle class checklist that I have to adhere to though!

I’m a uni lecturer involved in admissions - no, I don’t care.

That said, I have encouraged my own child to take an instrument but they were keen to do so. I would never force a child to have lessons if they didn’t want to but I think it’s important to let kids try as many things as they can and see what they actually like - as opposed to them assuming they won’t like things so never trying them.

I agree with this. Let them try as many different activities as possible so they can see what they like.

But it’s also good for children to work at things where they don’t have natural talent. Playing a bit of piano is good for brain development, even if you’re crap at it, as is sport.

Totally agree with this.

Lol..bit unfair! I have absolutely zero musical ability / aptitude so there's no way I could learn anything! Yes I do appreciate the irony of getting my daughter to learn piano.

My kids are expected to do something active, something group based, and something creative

DS(12) has gone overboard and does a brass instrument plus band, drama, debating, Scouts and rugby

DS(9) does as little as possible and does gardening club (active/group) and individual instrument lessons (creative).

The group/social activities do help with their social confidence which is not strong due to neurodiversities.

We have a piano that neither show any interest in at all.

As someone who has loved music from a young age (note my user name) I totally agree that music may not be for everyone but for those who take to it there is a lifetime of enjoyment, good fun and friendship to be had.
i used to do some teaching and what I would say
is that the motivation must come from the pupil and not the parent. I think this means starting from infancy - play a child a variety of music on CDs, radio, streaming, take them to baby or toddler music groups, concerts for young people…. This does not necessarily mean expensive and trips to major cities, a local music shop or library may know of things you could try. However some very good players started at a relatively late age - I used to know a professional clarinetist who hadn’t touched a instrument until she was 18.
As for the “middle class” or “snob” value, well, if that’s important to you, more fool you. There is nothing worse than a parent who may not know much about music or play them self who says to a child at 5 or 6 “Now it’s time to start an instrument - here’s a violin and s teacher.”
Also - exams are not the be all and all; Neither are they a teaching course in their own right.

Years ago, I remember talking to a mum while my son was at a sports lesson. She was talking about a "house" music evening at the local secondary. I said my DD wouldnt be able to contribute much to house points because she wasnt especially sporty or musical. She was quite horrified and said "well what does she do?"

Fwiw DD does dance to a reasonably high standard, and is academically bright , but hates competitive sport. (Shes at uni now and in the dance society at uni)

Learning an instrument is hard. Even professional musicians find practice and performance difficult but part of the benefit of music is showing and learning that if you persist you see rewards.

But those rewards are not that important to many people. Hard to get your head around if you play music, love music. But there are people out there (like me) who are just not interested. I never would actively choose to listen to music, I much prefer a podcast in the car to a radio. I can't read music and have no interest in learning. Never wanted to learn an instrument. There are lots of other ways you can demonstrate persistence and see rewards from your efforts.

I also thought this!!

Youd be better off sending them to drama class. Learning to speak, interact with confidence, imagine. That has huge potential to change their lives. Flute..not so much!!