AGAIN - Nursery worker found guilty [CONTENT WARNING: Details of CSA]

[AliceAbsolum]

https://www.whitchurchherald.co.uk/news/national/25838680.nursery-worker-guilty-multiple-sexual-offences-children-care/

Seriously when are they going to ban men from nurseries? I don't care if some other innocent men have to find other jobs.

It makes me feel so sick, I can't even comprehend it.

[title edited by MNHQ to include content warning]

Straw man. No one is suggesting you don't need safeguarding in general. Just imagine how you'd feel if it was your child you had allowed to be near that disgusting man given the obvious risk most people on this thread fully understand.

YANBU OP and it is for this reason that my children went to nurseries with all female staff and I never had a male babysitter. You can literally never tell and IMO it's better to eliminate the risk as well as tell children about bodily privacy and where people are allowed to touch them. Obviously this is no good for pre-verbal children or those still in nappies which is why my children only ever had female carers.

It wouldn’t happen because, due to personal experience, I trust no one. Male or female.

it’s awful that it happens to children. Truly awful. I just would rather see overall better safeguarding rather than a knee jerk ban of all men thinking that solves the problem.

But that is the default setting. We safeguard against men and women. We have procedures in place, insist on training and vet both men and women.

Despite that a rising number of male carers seem to be abusing their vulnerable charges so we need even more safeguarding measures.

You have particular reason to have a heightened awareness of women abusers. Many of us have particular reason to have a heightened awareness of male abusers.

It amazes me that we choose to ignore the biggest risk factor of all, when assessing people’s suitability to work with the vulnerable.

Bewildering.

Men are a bigger threat than women when it comes to sexual assault. Women and men can both be a fairly equal threat in terms of other types of child abuse.
Overall my preference would be a focus on robust safeguarding procedures and planning spaces in a way that helps reduce risk of any kind of abuse taking place. Removing men would greatly reduce some risks but wouldn’t change others and it could easily make people less careful around safeguarding.

I think I also feel like banning men from early years child care would really reinforce the idea childcare is the job of women. That has some consequences too that are less severe but much more ubiquitous & a solution that avoids those consequences and normalises men being involved in caring roles, while having measures in place to reduce risk of all types of abuse, feels like a better solution overall.

I was told that a particular care home in my area was excellent and was thinking of naming it as a possible destination for me if the time comes. Then this happened. The perpetrator's family has publicly disowned him:

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/fife/5023046/fife-man-assaulted-elderly-resident-videos-banned-care-sector/

For the decent blokes who work(ed) in nurseries (perhaps some have left the role), surely it’s not worth the stigma? This is the second recent conviction for male abuse in a nursery. Better to work in a care home if you’re a nurturing person.

I also agree with PPs below about room layouts. It’s not something I ever considered when choosing a nursery but it is actually something to think about for safeguarding.

Using a Made up statistic because I don’t know them…

If men are, say, ten times more likely to be abusing than women (they aren’t, it’s more like 100 times), then why on earth wouldn’t you immediately reduce the risk by a massive 90% by not employing men?

Look at your DC.
Look at the people applying to be their carer.
Yes, do safeguarding checks and follow up references.

Now, what one thing could you do to tenfold reduce the risk?
Why on earth wouldn’t you? It’s borderline neglectful not to!

Yeah I usually am an outlier in these controversial topics but I’m with you on this one. Statistically the chance of my child being abused by a woman is astronomically smaller than by a man. If I can reduce the chance I will.

Male teachers at preschools might be the only male figure some of the kids know. I imagine it would be classed as discrimination to ban one sex from doing a job.

The male preschool teacher I know seems to be better with kids than I to be honest.

The problem is that normalising males in caring roles is putting the most vulnerable at increased risk of sexual assault and rape in particular.

Campaigning for foxes to be given jobs guarding henhouses because it's not fair that foxes have a reputation for eating chickens - and all we need to do is to make sure that henhouses are made more secure in case that particular fox eats them, as it would be lovely if foxes and chickens could live together in perfect harmony - isn't a better solution. And, unfortunately, as men like this prove all too often, ideals are considerably different to harsh reality.

She is more likely to be abused by her dad or another family member.

I have no desire to do it on the basis it’s unfair to foxes in your analogy. I think it is not and never has been great for women that all the “caring” is their responsibility. Men can and should do better sharing responsibilities but I can’t see how you get there by officially making some roles “women’s work” even in a professional setting.
Also going back to your analogy the female carers would be dogs I guess. Largely much more trustworthy but still capable of causing a lot of damage so making the henhouse very secure would always be the best protection

But these are not foxes and chickens.

Men are children's fathers, brothers, uncles, cousins. Men are half our society. Half the children at nursery will grow up to be men.

It is completely impossible, not to mention impractical and probably illegal, to completely separate men and children until those children are what, 16? 18?

There is not going to be a ban on male nursery workers, teachers, nurses, caregivers etc. It's just not going to happen.

This isn’t a good example as foxes ALLWAYS will want to eat chickens - well mutilate them

From your example to extrapolate from your example you need to say employing peodaphiles at the nursery as equal to foxes - peodophiles that will want to act

Who cares!

What should be the punishment for child abusers?

No sorry, not semantics. The law.

It might have been excellent when you were told that. Staff turnover means all you can ever say about a home is that it delivers excellent care right now. The rot can set in within a couole of bad hires.

Or it may be that the person who told you didn't realise how narrow their view was.

One of my laziest, most neglectful colleagues (thankfully now dismissed) was very popular with residents' families. He was always there for a gossip with them and a chat about how brilliant he was at his job. The relatives adored him and some are probably on this forum talking about how their grandad's best carer was a bloke.

It didn't seem to occur to any of them why he had so much time to chat with them: because he never bothered doing any caring! Pigs would have flown before that man spent any ime engaging with the residents he was paid to look after. Once someone was up for the day, he would park the resident in an armchair and ignore them until his shift ended.

But he put on a great act for visitors, so when he was dismissed the residents' families wanted to know where he'd gone.

The single biggest assault, SA and rape risk to children is stepfathers.

Who thinks that allowing stepfathers/male partners to live with children who they aren't related to is a good idea just because they know one who is decent.

The single biggest risk of FGM, forced marriage, unreported DV etc is among certain ethnic groups.

I'm all behind keeping children safe, but if we actually want to keep them safe, we would need to stop unrelated men living with children, much more closely monitor ethnic groups who have children and also stop male nursery workers. Along with a whole host of other proven safety measures, such as enforcing vaccination (unless medically contra indicated), much tighter child car seat safety laws among many things.

People like to keep some freedoms under the heading of 'my child my choice' when it benefits them, such as having an unrelated partner move in. But want to stop others which don't affect them. Cant pick and chose, children safety is either the priority or its not!

Well it isn't going to happen. I understand the feelings but it won't happen. Imagine for example saying women can't go into engineering and won't be allowed. It won't happen.

You're probably right @Coffeeandbooks88 , it won't happen officially but it would happen pretty damn quick unofficially if the majority of mothers refused to place their child in a nursery that employed a male nursery worker.

Another mum will take the spot I imagine!

For all those saying ‘but women too’.
There are approximately 2% of male nursery workers in this country and approximately 60% of those actually caught abusing children are male. That makes it 30 times more likely a male nursery worker will abuse a child in their care.

I didn’t place my daughter in a nursery with a male worker and would urge every other mother to do the same. Your child’s safety is not worth compromising for ideals of male equity.