AGAIN - Nursery worker found guilty [CONTENT WARNING: Details of CSA]

[AliceAbsolum]

https://www.whitchurchherald.co.uk/news/national/25838680.nursery-worker-guilty-multiple-sexual-offences-children-care/

Seriously when are they going to ban men from nurseries? I don't care if some other innocent men have to find other jobs.

It makes me feel so sick, I can't even comprehend it.

[title edited by MNHQ to include content warning]

It's not a justification. It's a different type of risk.

Except it's actually not. Across the board, and especially given the amount of time each sex spends with children, men are actually more likely to kill children.

It's actually not what? A different type of risk? Of course it is.

I'm not sure if I misunderstood you, but women pose less risk to children across the board, with men more likely to both sexually abuse them, and equally or more likely to murder them. The risk of murder particularly rises sharply in men, outstripping the risk women pose, if the children are unrelated.

So with both types of risk, men are more dangerous.

What a stupid analogy.

Exactly. Society doesn't care about children being abused. Society's main concern is the feelings of men. We've seen it with the grooming gangs, with trans rights activism, and now with this.

So let's look at this, with how people on the thread have tried to say mothers are more likely to murder their children, to distract from the sexual abuse of children by male nursery workers:

According to the statistics from 2010 to 2018:

Sixty-eight per cent of these [filicide] cases were murders committed by the child's father, compared with 32 per cent by the child's mother.

Considering that in a survey of Australian childcare:

• 12% reported that looking after children was always done by the mother
• 42% reported it was usually done by the mother

And that 12.7% of families are headed by single mothers, and that, "on average, responding mothers had their child/ren living with them for 12 days per fortnight."

It's pretty easy to see that men are disproportionately more likely to murder children, as well as sexually abuse them.

Can women please stop caping for men? They're not going to give you a prize for it, you know. The decent ones don't need you to defend them, and the rest will just continue raping, sexually abusing, physically abusing and murdering both women and children, using your defence of them as cover to enable that behaviour.

Just doesn't seem relevant. People aren't going into the oil industry maliciously so they can spill coffee on people and roll up rugs so people trip over. Training videos won't stop pedophiles abusing children.

However I can see from your other posts I think you were talking about other injuries at nursery, so I think we're just talking about different things.

I think some pp are expanding this thread with different types of threats to children. This thread is about the risk some men pose to children in nursery, that being sexual abuse of kids. Pp wanting to discuss women's potential risks to kids or other risks can start their own thread. We have a very serious problem here and children are the victims of horrific abuse. I agree with PP that a campaign should start and that parent's can stop using nursery's that employ men. The nursery owners' would need to listen then.

Unrelated men are much more likely to abuse or kill children. It's actually that any unrelated partner is more likely to kill children, but when relationships break down children are more likely to live mainly or solely with their mum than their Dad, so children are much more exposed to unrelated men than unrelated women.

Do you honestly think with equal levels of access/contact stepmothers would pose a similar level of danger to children as stepfathers?

In a major 32-year study of U.S. filicide arrests, it was found that:

Among offenders, while fathers were about equally likely to kill an infant, they were more likely to be the alleged murderer of children older than a year, especially when the children were adults (fathers were the offenders in 78.3 percent of those cases). Overall, fathers were the accused murderer 57.4 percent of the time.

A father killing a son was the most likely (29.5 percent of cases), a mother killing a son (22.1 percent) follows. A mother was slightly more likely to kill a daughter (19.7 percent of cases) than a father was (18.1 percent). The rarest instances were stepmothers killing either a stepson (0.5 percent) or a stepdaughter (0.3 percent).

(Also, it wasn't listed in the pull quote, but stepfather to stepson was 6.2% and stepfather to stepdaughter was 3.6%.)

So no, stepmothers are NOT more likely to kill their stepchildren. They are, in fact, the LEAST likely of everyone.

I wish people would stop desperately clutching at straws and making things up to try to paint women to be worse than men in some regard.

They're not. They're just not, okay? Statistically speaking, men are so, so much worse. Soooo much worse.

All you have to do is look at the differing prison populations to see that! And then of course, all the studies will confirm it.

My daughter has been really happy and settled at her nursery for over a year. We were so pleased with it that I started her younger brother there this month. 2 separate men have now started in the baby and toddler room, with my son. One makes me really uncomfortable (perhaps unfairly…) as he has long greasy hair and a scraggly beard.

I would NEVER have chosen a nursery with male staff. I’m considering moving nurseries but my daughter is on a path to diagnosis with ASD and I think moving would really unsettle her. Who’s to say a man wouldn’t start in the next nursery!

I wish men were banned from early years childcare so we wouldn’t be put into these situations.

That's a horrible situation to be put in, and exactly why men shouldn't be allowed. It causes so much stress and anxiety for parents, in addition to the risks.

On a practical level, though, if one of the male staff makes you feel uncomfortable then you should listen to your gut, imo. How would you feel if you didn't, and the worst happened?

I did not state that stepmother's were more likely to harm the child they were living with, but that step parents are. Harm is not only murder. And murder is not what is being discussed on this thread, but abuse.

Study linked below showed that children living with 1 biological parent and 1 step parent were 7 times more likely to experience abuse. I have no doubt that this is much more due to stepfathers than step mothers. My point was not a male vs female one, but rather that if we really want to protect children from abuse the single biggest factor to reduce this would be to stop unrelated men moving into a property where children were living. But people won't call for that as it would be 'inconvenient' to many.

Much more inconvenient than banning men unconnected to them from working in nurseries. There are many threads on here calling for an action to protect children which doesn't inconvenience them, but mysteriously none mentioning banning one of the biggest risk factors - hypocrisy at its mumsnet finest.

What we need is more thorough safeguarding procedures throughout, better pay and respect for nursery staff, so it attracts high quality staff, well educated and engaging, rather than nurseries having to employ whoever they can get, which increases risk of harm. Salaries have stayed low as its a predominantly female job. This would increase fees though, again something which people may not like.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinderella_effect#:~:text=These%20records%20led%20Wilson%20and,when%20other%20factors%20are%20considered.

This is why none of my children went to nursery, I got a lot of judgement for it but I stand by my choice. I agree with another poster I would rather be broke than send my kids nursery, no job is worth it.

Yes I agree they are much more risky. Maybe we should ban any man from being on their own with a child who they are not immediately biologically related to? Both in workplaces and homes. I was sexually abused by both a boy in my year at school and a teacher at my school, my friend was sexually abused by her stepfather, so I'm all for this. Single sex schools, with only teachers of same gender. Or maybe female teachers only for both?

No it's not. It's factual...they are all in one group. The group called "men"
A group that is statistically a far higher risk of committing sexual abuse.

Do you understand safeguarding at all?
And all those abusers... they're all somebody's son.

I don't see why anyone can judge you for it as long as you were supporting yourselves as a family. If one partner earns enough that the other can stay home without claiming any benefits, and all happy with that, then it's great. I cut my hours to 2 days a week after I had my girls and we were lucky enough that each Grandma did a day's childcare so mine didn't start until pre school and fully toilet trained, so no need for any intimate care. However I also appreciate that not everyone is privileged enough to be able to cut hours and still be able to cover all their bills thenselves, and have family support, and I also wouldn't judge anyone who did send their child to nursery young.

Nothing to do with benefits etc judged for them “missing out” and “keeping them home”

Well, that would be nice, but at such an extreme level, probably not workable or enforceable, not like the simplicity of banning men from nursery work (as they're banned from doing mammograms). I do think that more single sex schools with female teachers being available would be excellent.

And more awareness being raised around just how unsafe it is to have an unrelated man move into the family home. Dating is one thing, but having them move in is a major risk.

Since 97% of nursery workers are female, it’s not surprising that you were able to find some cases of abuse committed by female workers. Although no abuse is acceptable, I don’t think this is the gotcha you think it is.

Considering how tiny the percentage of male childcare workers is, they shouldn’t be making headlines quite so often.

https://www.ecnmy.org/engage/only-three-percent-of-uk-nursery-workers-are-male/