Dummy at 8?

[Sockmate]

Niece has a dummy, dipped in honey several times a day, probably around 20, then all night. No SEN. Sister says its 'just a cute little part of her'. I hugely disagree, so damaging for her teeth. Speech is affected already. She is doing poorly at school, lowest grades in class, getting learning support, has missed a lot of school due to asthma. I made the point last week the dummy probably isnt helping. Child has constant cough with antibiotics/steroids, round after round. I'm baffled that she thinks this is ok. I know a lot of children go beyond the recommended 1 to 2 years but this is taking the piss!!! Also the dummy's are changed maybe once a year if that 🤢🤢 response I got was its doing no harm and she personally knows older kids than hers that have dummies 🙄

Is it just a case of you cant argue with stupid? Concerned for my little niece. AIBU?

Dummy use over age of 12 months is associated with more frequent coughs and colds, partly due to dummy being a bacteria breeding ground, but also as prolonged dummy use can change how a child breaths, reduces how much a child sneezes which is natural mechanism to expel bacteria, dries out nasal cavities which removes another natural protective barrier. Teeth are likely to be in poor condition and this bacteria can track to the ear and throat causing infections.

She also won't get any orthodontics on the NHS in the future. I was told that prolonged use of dummies or even thumb sucking meant that they did not have to provide free treatment.

There you go. Her sister did it with her kids as well.

Speaking as the parent off a severely autistic teenager and somone who sucked my thumb until I was nine
A manky dummy dipped in honey several times a day is not good parenting if she has sensory issues there are better ways to manage these.

I worked for a while in a Sen school and it’s not something I’ve ever seen, with a range of disabilities i still haven’t seen a child older than 6ish use a dummy. My little one loved his dummy and was a nightmare to get it from but he was fine once the initial few days were over.

The honey is so bad. @Sockmate is your sister a bit thick?

Have you ever spoken to your niece about her dummy? At 8, she'd be able to have a decent conversation about things.

I don't mean in a way to shame her, but just a general conversation about it.

Oh FFS it's ALWAYS suggested SEN. Every single time.

OP, a dummy dipped in honey 20 times a day is not normal or good.

I would be contacting social services or the safeguarding lead at her school myself about this. This is straightforward neglect unfortunately.

Yes its rare even in SEN schools past the age of 6 or 7
My son loved his dummy and o though we would never get it off him
He threw it across the room one night and that was that
Obviously thats just anecdotal.

Tbh yes she is 🙈🙈 she isnt the sharpest tool in the shed, has never read a book, she wouldnt research anything, it'll just be someone told her somewhere nice for a holiday so will go there type person. Was saying to us the other day her kids not getting phones until college 😂😂 she thinks they will go along with it!
She isnt someone you can have a robust conversation with, she can never debate anything. Never knows anything about current affairs, for example she didnt know what ICE was recently, shes 44, not a clueless 25 year old 🙈

I would love to but am afraid to as DS can be quite volatile and might get really angry at us both

Yes this is true, my step daughter has been told she will not get braces (which she needs) I'd she doesn't stop sucking her fingers.

Op I feel like this is some sort of neglect, it's not just infantilism but she's being affected physically too. I don't actually know what you can do about it though unfortunately.

I would not be biting my tongue if my sister was treating my niece like this.

You know for a fact that this child does not have SEN / it is because she missed school and your qualification to make this assessment is you have two children with SEN?

There's a lot going on here and you've lumped it all in together:

• No, your niece should not have a dummy at 8, especially dipped in honey.
• The liklihood it would reach a social services thresholds is small unless her teeth were rotten and her family really never took her to a dentist.
• You have no way of knowing whether or not your niece has SEN. It's not a case of she was "assessed" for it and decided no SEN, assessed for what? All SEN known to humankind? Assessments are also not infallible.
• You have no way of knowing whether any learning problems are down to missed school or SEN. It is a very complex thing to tease out.
• I can't see how asthma would be related to dummy use.
• Asthma, chronic illness and repeated infections are likely driving missed school, in which case, missing school is not a failure. These things are also more likely to be linked to SEN than dummy use.
• Lots of SEN is hereditary, you've admitted yourself it "runs in the family" and yet somehow have decided your niece definitely doesn't have SEN?
• If your niece really has no SEN, the dummy is almost certainly going to stop. I cannot imagine any neurotypical school child taking a dummy on sleepovers, or using a dummy as a teenager for example.

Edit to say: dummy use, especially dipped in honey, at 8 for a broadly mainstream ability child is really bad though.

PP’s have stated how dummy use increases respiratory infections and issues. Even if the kid is SEN, giving them a dummy dipped in honey multiple times a day is still bad parenting. It might be the easiest way to parent, but doing things that actively hamper your children’s health and development is not the right thing to do, SEN or no SEN.

I said dummy use at 8 is not good. "Associated with" colds is not really evidence that this dummy is causing this child's asthma.

I just think the "no SEN" thing that gets so casually anf confidently declared on Mumsnet all the time is staggeringly arrogant. I almost wish SEN hadn't been brought into it, especially in this case where it's (almost) irrelevant to the honey dummy use at 8. Those of us with severely disabled children still wouldn't do that.

Its bad for any child
There are better ways to meet sensory needs

I dont know if this could work?
Could you create a story, like you were chatting to a mum in a shop and she mentioned trying to get her baby weaned off the dummy because of the link to ear infections, asthma, allergies. I was worried for DNiece and i knew you would be too DS, so looked into it for you and i found:

https://www.nct.org.uk/information/baby-toddler/caring-for-your-baby-or-toddler/dummies-pros-and-cons-your-dummy-questions-answered

Using honey
https://healthforunder5s.co.uk/

Position of adult teeth affected:
https://www.orthodonticcentre.co.uk/patient-guides_dummy-and-thumb-sucking-habits/#:~:text=What%20can%20my%20dentist/orthodontist,thumb%20or%20finger%20sucking%20habit?

I had a cousin like this when I was growing up and she’s the reason I didn’t give my kids dummies. I remember her mum really struggled to break the habit and also had to get her teeth fixed which was a nightmare. She’s fine now but she still has issues with her speech. I know my aunt had a hard time and her (now ex) husband was a proper loser as well and didn’t help.

I think you’re right to be worried about your niece. If you think your sister has mental health issues you should try and get her help, but first port of call get that child to a dentist asap.

In that scenario I would be making an anonymous report to social services/ the school. If you think her mental health is poor enough that she is behaving in ways that are damaging to the children then they all deserve support and you're doing nobody any favours by keeping her secrets.

By that age they should be at the dentist, attending school, dummy free never mind the teeth rotting issues. It's neglect op. And it's a clear safeguarding issue.

Yes. My children, like yours, are severely disabled and don't use dummies.

However, I know a severely learning disabled child who does use a dummy at 9. He has extremely challenging behaviour and won't accept substitute sensory items. It's not always as easy as just finding a substitute. My child has severe pica and we've tried everything but haven't been able to stop this behaviour/ meet whatever needs he has for this. Severely disabled children are all different so these days I rarely say "I would never do xyz".

In this case the SEN (or not SEN) is probably irrelevant to the dummy, I'm not sure it should have been brought up.

sen is a red herring. Completely not relevant. Even in specialist provisions of the most challenging, complex or disabled of children not a single one should be having a honey dummy and certainly not at this child’s age.

Op I’ve met a few parents in my job who treat their children (always daughters) like objects. Dressing them as babies in clothes akin to christening gowns or similar and these babies have no strength to lift their heads or have flat head syndrome because they’re just left to look like dolls. And those parents have always been limited intellectually. It’s why I asked was DS a bit thick. I think you should report anonymously but don’t expect fuck all to happen. I reported some pretty serious negligence of a family locally and they were already involved with them and nothing has happened. SS really cant deal with negligence when there are so many cases of abuse.
SS involvement however might shock your sister into stop doing such stupid and dangerous shit with her DDs teeth.

How often does she visit the dentist? What do her teeth look like?

I'd imagine it would deform the growth of teeth and jaw as well as cause decay with the honey.

If she admitted this to a GP or dentist or any health professional I wouldn't be surprised if they felt the family need SS support.

And the child could easily be SEN but misdiagnosed. Or the mum is in denial so won't have it investigated properly. It sounds almost neglectful.

OP is right that it's a health risk. Just think about what putting sugary sticky substance on a dummy is going to: bacteria is going to proliferate around the base of the dummy and in cracks that form in the main part as it ages. It's no wonder she's been getting sick all the time. And there'll be a negative loop, with the antibiotics lowering her immune system further. Repeat antibiotics use is even linked to asthma.

Someone needs to tell the parents that it's not a cute habit, it's actually hurting their child.