My ds keep shaming me

[Sunshining20]

My 4 and 5 year old DS have taken to calling me the worst fattest mum in the world every time I don't give in to TV or snack demands. They also tell me to shut my mouth and hit me. But the calling me fat all the time is relentless.

They come from a loving home and me and my husband parent seemingly the same as our other parent friends. Giving boundaries, organising things like baking and days out and socialise.

Where have we gone wrong? How do we fix this? We have done time outs and explained this language and behaviour isn't acceptable.

It makes me very sad and resentful.

Do you not have a Cross Voice?

Have you perfected ‘the look’ with a firm phrase ‘thats rude/unkind/enough’? Don’t give it any more time and attention than that.

separately the not giving in to stuff - how are you setting these boundaries? Ideas:Might be better trying to think through ways to boundary things that are not you intervening in their plans unexpectedly (to them) eg provide snacks for the day in a named box in the fridge that they can get whenever they want and once gone it’s gone then it’s on them to learn a responsible limit to snacks not you. As for TV - get any jobs done for the day first so if they put tv on they don’t need pulling away from it to reduce the need to do to do that.

You find something they really care about, tell them calmly that if they are rude or hit they will lose that thing - straight away, no warnings - and then stick to it, every single time. Maybe no TV that day, or no sweets, or no dessert, or no Lego the next day - whatever you know they will care about. At the same time start a "being kind" chart for each of them where they get a sticker at bedtime if they’ve done a whole day being kind (no being rude or hitting). When an individual child achieves say 10 stickers that child gets a small reward (new small toy, extra tv time etc.)

It's coming from somewhere.

How do you and your husband talk to each other. How do others around them communicate? What are they watching?

You need stronger boundaries and consequences if soft gentle parenting isn't working. It has to be nipped right back or it will get worse.

Give them instructions without wasting time trying to reason. Give them a time limit. 'You have 5 minutes to do...or otherwise this will/won't happen'.

Stick to effective punishments. Be consistent. If they hit you, return the favour. They will usually stop very quickly when they see the response to their behaviour.

My ds doesn’t give a shit about cross / stern / teacher voices (I am a teacher so I’m not a newbie at it.) He’d just laugh.

I also 100% think they are bouncing off one another; I know both mine are lovely alone but can get very silly and hyper together.

I would be tempted to just walk out of the room when they do it; every time. And no TV. But sympathies; it’s not as easy as some posters are making out.

Another one asking where have they heard "fat" as an insult?

My kids at that age did not know it was an insult, and now they are older they would never dare be so unkind.

Something missing in your retelling OP. Are they having unsupervised TV or YouTube viewing? Is your DH actually abusive and saying similar things? Do you say similar things?

Is your husband telling them not to talk to you like that?

I’m actually in the opposite camp to most people here. When my 3 year old started hitting me (just after his baby DS arrived) I realised it was all about attention. Yelling, time outs, stern talking tos all rewarded the behaviour. I started walking away. Absolutely no response at all. It stopped really fast after that. He’s 4 now and we do the same with any language we don’t like. Any time he starts up with poo poo bum bum chat, we glaze over, change the subject. It’s all extremely boring.

We’ve told him that the consequence of unpleasant behaviour is people don’t want to spend time with him. This is paired with loads of positive attention for good behaviour.

They aren't 'shaming' you (I don't even really understand what this means) - they are being absolutely bloody rude.

How do you respond when they say this?

Where have they picked this up from? Have they heard you discussing with DP being overweight? Is your DP kind to you ?

I would lose my shit and send them to their rooms, each and every time they speak like this.

DP needs to also do the same.

I might get flamed for this, but I'd stop explaining and start being stern now. I absolutely would not keep explaining why it's not nice and wrong, they know.
No flaming from me! Flaming should have started the first time they did it.

You’re the parent. You’re in charge. My sons wouldn’t have dreamed of speaking to me like that when they were little. Unacceptable. They need to be told, and quick.

I have to say that this is potentially a good way to go if the consequences aren’t working.
Explain briefly why you’re leaving and then grey rock until they apologise and appear sorry.

And if some of this is about treats and access to treats which they want, I would not be afraid to use food as part of the consequence. Don't buy ANY treats for a week - we usually don't need them. Eat a carrot or something instead. What's their favourite tea? We're not having that this week. I mean, we have to be careful about food and sanctions for lots of reasons but if its a language they understand its quite effective. No cake for you because. No treats. No toys at the shops. No day out. No screen time. No playdate.
I will NEVER withhold a teddy or friend but other things ..

I agree with @Ketryne

We haven’t had ‘fat’ (and I wouldn’t be so sure it’s coming from something that can be blamed on the OP; they do hear all sorts at school) but lots of smelly, poo poo, bum, wee. I ignore it. It’s childish and annoying but five year olds are, unsurprisingly!

My kids did this, to be fair I was fat then I got unwell and dropped to 6 stone, and they still called me fat which baffled me. In the end I reliezed kids are just horrible, I took all their stuff and refused to give it back for a month till their behaviour changed.

We took similar action - my DS was 7 and he lost all tech and TV for 48 hours and then a full 7 days. It was enough thereafter to threaten the loss of it all for him to stop and apologise.

You deprive them of the things they love most - if they love their lego, or thomas the tank engine set etc, CBeebies, you tell them it will be taken away for 48 hours. And you do it. If they repeat offend, it is withdrawn for 72 hours and you escalate. You state that naughty boys do not go to birthday parties or soft play. But you should not be doing it alone - your DH needs to come down on them like a tonne of bricks. It is actually acceptable to occasionally raise your voice at your children and tell them that their behaviour is bloody disgusting and will not be tolerated. And your husband needs to united with you in everything you do.

And as others suggest - they are learning it from somewhere. Given their ages - and assuming you are not in an abusive relationship with DH is talking to you like this - I would speak to school and find out who their friends are and whether one of them is playing with a child that behaves/talks like this. Explain the issues you are having at home as they can support you in nipping this behaviour in the bud.

If they’re not hearing or seeing behaviour like this at home what the hell are you letting them watch that they think it’s acceptable? I’d start by banning the tv and keeping it off while you find strategies to make them behave in a more acceptable way.

Your framing is quite telling. They’re not “shaming” you. They’re poorly disciplined and being fucking horrible. Stop making it about how you feel and start dealing with their violence. Do they carry on like this at school?

This! Do not engage.

I also personally removed power from the word. The first time my child used the fat word - Yes, I am fat, just as you are thin. 🤷🏽‍♀️

After that, ignore. Give attention to, praise and reward the positive behaviour.

I also can't believe people are advising to hit back, how the hell do you teach a small child that hitting is wrong while hitting them??

We had something similar with DS3 when he was about 5/6 yrs old, DH was in another room but heard him, DS actually called me a stupid cow😮I turned and looked at him in stunned astonishment but before I could even reply, Dh flew into the room and roared at him "What did you just say to your Mum". DH never raises his voice as he is a very easy going calm person but he was so shocked. It was followed by telling him he could not believe he had said something so nasty and rude and to get out of the room as neither DH or I wanted to be in the same room as someone who said such horrible things. He was gently shoved out to the hall - he was now the shocked one!!
Any time he tried to return to the kitchen he was told to leave and we completely ignored him while telling him we were not ready to talk to him or be in the same room as him after being so rude and mean.
He never did it again and he ended up crying and coming to me for a hug and wailing that he was sorry and I'm not a cow - never mentioned the stupid bit though😂
You do need to get very mad though and use a very very harsh tone of voice.

No, they learn that people who say they love you also physically hurt you.

I have never ever hit my children. Therefore I can explain that I love them and would never hurt them. 'We don't ever hurt people we love. In our house no one is afraid of being physically hurt and in our house we have kind hands. I would never ever hit or hurt you so you must not ever ever hit or hurt anyone else.'

@AnneLovesGilbert they are four and five, at least one is definitely in school and the other is either also at school or preschool or some description.

We can’t control everything and unfortunately they will hear things that are unkind, unpleasant.

I think this phase is normal for many children same as them saying they hate you etc. They are testing the power of words and reactions. I dontt make a dramtic response. I reiterate that we dont make personal comments about each other in our family. Same as saying that a stranger on the street is fat/ smelly/ missing a leg etc. It passes and then they do something else more embarrassing. I wouldn't give drama to something that is meant to create drama. I often reply sorry to hear you feel that way. You know the consequence of saying x. So no more TV today. If he says sorry sorry I won't do it anymore. I say great but the consequence still stands. Even when theres a masterclass in negotiation. Consequence still stands. He respects that boundary. I dont need to shout or make draconian punishments.