To say it isn't worth working full time with young kids unless you earn very well?

[Karma1387]

I have done a few posts recently and on a couple its come up frequently how insane it is to give up work/pension etc when having children which made me really think am I being unreasonable and should I try to go back to full time work after DC2 maternity leave.

I went through finances today to look into my partner taking a paycut due to wanting to get him off nights for his health and then looked at how much better/ worse off we would be if I then went and found a full time job.

I was honestly shocked how much worse off we would be with him taking a paycut to come off nights and me finding a full time job and putting the kids into childcare. We would be about £750 short each month. We do have a bit of debt which would mean we were only £250 short but I can't understand where the logic/motivation is to go back to full time work whilst kids are young if you are worse off or break even.

I would need to earn 40k in order to break even. For people who aren't in high earning professions I just can't understand how they afford to work full time and put kids into childcare. Even when the kids hit school age with before and after school care plus school holidays we would only be a little over breaking even if I worked full time!

I understand people talk about pensions but on a 24k salary (assuming you didn't work your way up) the pension at 67 would only be 5k a year. So what is the point really?

AIBU to say it really isn't worth working full time with kids (that require childcare) unless you are earning a very good salary?

Yeah I'm with you. I'm not paying to work. I also have a great relationship with my husband. Even if that goes to shit I'll deal with it then as right now I'm enjoying time with the kids, and if I was working full time and we split the chances are I'd have to change job anyway to accommodate childcare.

I think it depends on your job. I was not earning much when I had my child, though I still went back full time and used nursery as it would have hindered my career progression. I now earn very well, so it paid off.

But the premise has to be that you work your way up. It would be crazy to plan for a career on 24k a year from age 25 to 67, no?!

It just seems insane. I think if you love your job or earn loads then sure I can understand but when childcare is the same as your wage you have to wonder what the point is!

I was feeling bad about not working full time but now I have looked at the figures I can see it would actually be worse for us.

At one point I was looking at a loss of £300 per month.
I refused and stayed home - which is possibly the worst mistake of my life as I absolutely hate being a SAHM, I’m not cut out for it. I straight away opened a WFH business and started earning through that, put my second child into nursery one day a week, gradually built my business up until it was covering the nursery bill and worked for no money for a year, before my youngest went to school.
it worked for us, but not everyone can do that, and that’s why I honestly, do not judge any mum for her choice in back to work or not.

Most people at the start of their career would be worse off or break even but career progression should mean work is very rewarding for both partners. And you may be part time pre-school for instance and then full time when in school. Or even 70-80% during the preschool years so by the time they are in school, you can pay to outsource most things and spend all your time with the kids without worrying about the mundane things. Just depends on the life you want to design

With you. I’m a civil servant and have recently realised how unaffordable and unrealistic it will be for me to have a child.

Depends if it’s at a cost to your career though. I have known several people return to not damage their career prospects. Another mum has been a SAHM for years now and now lives abroad so if she wanted to teach like she used to do she’d need to completely retrain. So she doesn’t work.

Most people who say you should stay FT are referring to not losing the career progression as that impacts your longer term earning potential. I think this impacts professional roles more obviously but would influence many roles to an extent.

But I think it's easy to say, the reality of working and breaking even or even losing is horrible.

FWIW I'm in a professional role and have worked PT for 8 years. I'm always told I should work FT because of career progression/loosing earnings potential as well. But it's too personal a choice and you just have to do what suits.

So when I had my second I worked out we’d be £750 better off a month if I stayed home and just claimed tax credits, as DH and I were both lower income back then, starting out in our careers. At points in my career was bringing in only £200 a month for full time hours if you put all commuting and childcare costs on my salary.

I decided to stay in work and build a career. By the time my youngest was in school I had climbed the ladder enough to have a level of seniority that enabled me to own my diary, get to school commitments etc, not long after Covid happened and I’ve pretty much WFH since. I haven’t missed a single school event, I am home when the kids get back from school.

Financially, I now earn double what my husband does, we have an annual household income over nearly £150,000, and we are both on track to be “pension millionaires”. But most importantly my level of seniority allows me a level of flexibility that ensures I have a brilliant home life balance and am here for my teens, who are surprisingly needy!

You may not be earning a good salary now, but I suppose my question is what do you want out of life? Do you want to be low income forever, or do you fancy a career? If it’s the latter, it’s worth a punt in my view.

I do understand that from the pension aspect but equally 10 plus years (depending on how many kids you have and what age you feel comfortable leaving them alone) of either not earning enough to cover bills or breaking even doesn't seem worth it for the pension? How likely are you to move up and earn 40-50k if you are super stressed about money, time with kids, sick kids?

For example with us being realistic if I went and found a full time job and had no more kids. I would assume it would take 5-10 years to progress up enough to earn almost double the starting salary. That's 5-10 years of being at a loss monthly compared to working as I do now 2 days a week in a basic job. Even if you took our debt free loss of £250 a month in 5 years that's £15k lost or 30K in 10 years.

I can't see you benefiting that much from pension contributions in them years?

I earn 40k more now than I did when my first child was born… and I wouldn’t be earning that if id have quit my job powered on through struggling to pay childcare for a while .. so I don’t really agree with what you are saying

I appreciate the response. But how many jobs realistically hire for entry level positions part time (lets say 3 days a week as that is what the free hours funding covers) which would then allow you to progress over the 5ish years your kids are in nursery (based on 2 kids with smallish age gap).

I work retail currently just as a basic shop worker (I had to leave my managerial position due to the hours not being feasible for childcare). I can't imagine an office job which would hire for an unskilled job 3 days a week? or I have never come across one in my search anyway.

You either take a hit for 5-10 years, or a hit for the next 40-50 years of your life.

But in your case you’d be taking the hit for the sake of your partner’s health, or have you decided that’s not that important after all?!

Taking a career break can massively impact progression and later salary, and some people actually get a lot of fulfilment from their jobs. Nursery doesn't have to be some sort of awful dumping ground - it can actually be great especially for only children. Also you need a certain number of qualifying years of paying in NI to get the full state pension.

Would you have two DC in nursery? I only ever had one at nursery and one at school (with breakfast and after school club) at a time and I was always better off working with the 30h 'free childcare'...I earn less than 30k.

I am talking if you started at the very bottom of a career after your children. I had to leave my job as the hours couldn't work with childcare. If I went for a new career with more stable hours the monthly loss (compared to me working part time retail) would be insane after paying for childcare. How many people can survive with a loss each month? I am talking an actual monthly loss as in not enough money in the pot to pay for the childcare to go and work full time?

I can possibly understand if it was just a monthly loss on spare income if you actually enjoyed your job and as you say for the career prospects. But if working full time meant actually not being able to pay everything and going into debt for say 5 years would you consider it worth it then?

That’s an incredibly short term perspective. You may be technically paying to work today but you are investing in a future career.

Its not just about your take home pay here and now, its about the long haul: if you stop working you are damaging your own future earnings. That might be the right thing to do short term but in ten years time when your children are at secondary school and heading towards independence and you can’t find a job and have nothing to do all day and very little money you will regret not making that investment.

I completely agree with this. It very much depends on whether you intend to have a career or are happy remaining on low wages for 40 years.
For those who are career minded, childcare costs are worth it. Because they are playing the long game.

Nhs band 2 clerical/admin/ward clerk/reception jobs ….loads are part. Time…most of them in fact

I appreciate the health comment which is why I have been doing some research. But I'm not talking just a loss of spare money. I am talking a loss meaning not actually being able to pay for the childcare needed to work full time. 5-10 years of being in the negative each month would cause an insane amount of stress which I would say is likely to be worse for everyones health?

And yes I know these things should be thought about before kids but we are where we are. I'm just trying to work out a way forward or if we have to suck things up and try and support my partner without him coming off nights.

Oh I haven't written this as if nursery is bad. My son adores going to nursery and would probably love going 5 full days a week! The cost however is the issue with 2 children.

I am earning triple now my youngest DC is about to turn 18, than I did before kids. Yes we spent a lot in childcare, but I never worked for a loss.

Yeah we will have 2 in Nursery for about 2 years. Then it would be nursery plus probably childminder so still not overly cheap.

I have to admit I hadn't considered the NHS. Clerical isn't my idea of fun but something I will add to my notes for after maternity leave as an option! Is the NHS the sort of employer you can move up from clerical positions and work full time?