To say it isn't worth working full time with young kids unless you earn very well?

[Karma1387]

I have done a few posts recently and on a couple its come up frequently how insane it is to give up work/pension etc when having children which made me really think am I being unreasonable and should I try to go back to full time work after DC2 maternity leave.

I went through finances today to look into my partner taking a paycut due to wanting to get him off nights for his health and then looked at how much better/ worse off we would be if I then went and found a full time job.

I was honestly shocked how much worse off we would be with him taking a paycut to come off nights and me finding a full time job and putting the kids into childcare. We would be about £750 short each month. We do have a bit of debt which would mean we were only £250 short but I can't understand where the logic/motivation is to go back to full time work whilst kids are young if you are worse off or break even.

I would need to earn 40k in order to break even. For people who aren't in high earning professions I just can't understand how they afford to work full time and put kids into childcare. Even when the kids hit school age with before and after school care plus school holidays we would only be a little over breaking even if I worked full time!

I understand people talk about pensions but on a 24k salary (assuming you didn't work your way up) the pension at 67 would only be 5k a year. So what is the point really?

AIBU to say it really isn't worth working full time with kids (that require childcare) unless you are earning a very good salary?

If he took the paycut to move to days he would be on about £43k and if I was full time somewhere I would be about £24k. Unfortunately we would only get about £200 towards the childcare after they take all the deductions off for our earnings so not enough to offset our monthly loss.

Depends on whether you want to be at home full time. Remember when us older people had dc there was no subsidy for childcare so it was a case of giving up or not often. I didn’t work but many friends did and early effectively nothing for years but they earn better than me now. Keeping skills up is an issue in many cases too

Staying at work is about playing the long game. Pension building up, employability improving, career progression.

Could you use the nursery years to retrain?

What does your do do?

My sums are based on say 5 years of childcare. But even if you said 3 years of childcare for both. If we have a monthly deficit of £500 a month for 3 years that's 18K worth of debt just to be able to pay the bills and work full time.

But I do appreciate the feedback and understand that it is a long game.

When my DD was a baby 10 years ago I went back to work part time as a receptionist. I was earning about 9k a year. Then I moved to one of the teams in the office, gained experience in the sector, worked my way up and now I'm a manager (at a different company) earning 50k.

It's taken me 10 years because I've had 3 kids in that time. But it wouldn't have happened at all if I'd quit working when DD was a baby because of the cost of nursery.

I've never earned much more than 28k over my whole working life. I don't quite understand what you mean about a 5k pension though? My pension will be significantly more than that plus a lump sum ( although it is NHS ). I worked nights around my kids when they were little and dh worked days so little in childcare costs. I do understand that nights are brutal though.

Exactly, you’ve got to play the long game and it pays off. Can your DH look to getting a better paid job? Even so I’d still continue my career, and i’m thankful I did even though my pension is reduced with some part time years (4 day week). I did split with my ex and although unmarried he has said recently he wants to pay a lump sum into my pension to make up for those years. But TBH, I don’t need him to, but maybe he is having an attack of conscience for going and working overseas and leaving me to it for 15yrs. My advice to my 17yr DD the other day was to always keep up your own career too, but maybe i’m jaded by my own experiences. You never see men post with these issues.

Would you be willing to go into debt to get those extra couple of years working full time? or accept as I have to start at the bottom of a career anyway as I can't go back to my previous career that I would be better off waiting until at least the nursery years are over (5 years) and then go to a full time role?

If anything my partner is looking at a 10K paycut to get himself off night for his health. It's not doable right now but it's the aim. He loves his job and is good at it and I already had to give it up so I wouldn't want him to as well. He has promotion prospects as the years go on.

My kids are much older now. When they were little, I never had two in nursery. DC2 was born when DC1 was in her last year before school. By the time I went back after maternity, she was in Year R. This was 10-15 years ago. I was earning just over £30k and I can cover full time nursery on my wages alone, including childcare vouchers. I think you assessment of £40k is likely to be correct to cover full time nursery now.

The lost of income isn't just about current salary however. If the person going part time or quit working can cover all of the childcare cost, it's likely he or she will continue to progress in their career. I don't work in a high flying job and I work only office hours. I'm earning £65k. This is a huge amount that I don't believe I could have saved from being at home and shop fruggally from Aldi or Lidl.

We both actually work nights. I do the 2 nights that he doesn't. But he has sleep apnea and I don't think the night shifts and odd sleep schedules are doing him any good.

When I have used pension calculators based on a 24k salary with 4% my contribution and 4% employer it is coming out at around 5k a year at 67. Of course once the children are older and we had more money I could Increase my contribution.

What about working opposite shifts for few years? Plenty of parents do that too.

You’d surely have a lump sum too? You can’t base it on 24k all those years, put in a rise every year and see the difference.

You've got to make the calculation and decisions based on at least a ten year time frame. At one point my salary was less than childcare (same for a friend of mine). I know plenty of women who gave up work. Now with kids in their teens the difference is really stark. I managed to keep up my professional 'place', I worked part time and couldn't pursue promotion for a long while. But when the kids were older I could step up again. When they were in secondary I secured a series of promotions and went back to full time. My DH and I earn about the same (less overall risk for the household). Women I know who took 5-7 years out the work place have really struggled. They mostly couldn't get back to what they trained for and are stuck with low paid insecure part time roles. Those whose divorced are well and truly fucked. Those who now earn so much less than their DH....for many this disparity has been a pretty shitty dynamic in their marriage... Even if your DH is a superstar I'd never risk it, if the sole earner gets sick or good forbid dies what the hell do you do then?

if it was just a case of childcare would eat all my wage I may be more open to it but it would actually make us -500 plus each month due to my part time earnings being £950 with no childcare costs but my earnings after childcare when full time being around £350.

My part time wage basically covers a small amount of bills and then that is our spare money for paying off debt, renovating the house etc. Working full time with childcare with both DC would mean being -£500 each month (If DP took a paycut as well which would be the only reason I would go full time)

I have done it without any tax free lump some as that would have meant only like 3-4k per year. The pension pot came out at a little over £100k in total.

The issue is opposite shifts doesn't solve the childcare issue. My partner currently works nights (although that needs to change as his health is being affected) but he then has to sleep during the day. So if I worked daytimes the kids would still need to be in full time daycare.

I do our finances based as a whole. When I say we would be -£500 a month that's us as a family. It all comes out of the same bank account.

Could you not look for a better paying job because it sounds like your DH wants to come off nights for his health but cannot afford to because you don’t earn much/won’t work more?

I actually think you need to be around more during the teenage years - DH and I are planning that we both might go PT at that point to be around.

Our DC have only been in nursery 2/3 days a week max, but I realise childcare is easier at nursery age not school age- my eldest never does breakfast club and only does after sch twice a week.

(DH works FT, I work 4 days, both hybrid)

Agree! And one more thing - not everyone is born to do/have a career. I was SAHM with my second child because we're in London with ZERO family and nursery 8am-5.30pm would cost me £97,54 a day. Plus, I would need wrap around care because of the commute to central London. So, I would earn only £12,70 and would pay £9.80 for travelling. And that's without wraparound!
I simply stayed at home and took occasionally shifts from agencies (late evening, night, etc).
For anyone saying that government gives funded hours - try to find nursery, which actually accepts new starter with it. Only full price paying parents have priority...

Possibly I just don't really know what to retrain as!

My partner is a retail manager on nights currently but long term looking to move to days for his health. I was also a retail manager pre kids.

Why is everyone only pegging childcare costs to a woman's salary. Childcare gets framed as “worth it” only if mum’s salary covers it, as if men don’t also have children, careers or responsibilities 🙄

Childcare isn’t a lifestyle choice or a female indulgence, it’s basic infrastructure that enables both parents to work. No one asks whether a mortgage or the gas bill is “worth it based on mum’s wages”, it’s a shared household cost

I guess it’s hard with both nights, but if your partner was days, you could do evenings / weekends. It’s hard as don’t see much of each other, my parents did it for years. I guess it’s your decision and many women stop working for many years. I guess you can just cut your cloth and make it work, and return to work when youngest is 11. Mine came home from school on the bus at that age. DD not for long due to Covid but my work is flexible that I can drop her to school and pick her up and log back on again (as she has an ongoing illness). I allow all my team to do that too, so no afterschool childcare.

The issue is my career before I can't go back to so I would have to start at the bottom somewhere most likely on minimum wage which after childcare we couldn't afford for me to do as well as partners paycut.

Its me pushing my partner to come off nights eventually as I see how tired he is and how little time he gets with the kids.