To say it isn't worth working full time with young kids unless you earn very well?

[Karma1387]

I have done a few posts recently and on a couple its come up frequently how insane it is to give up work/pension etc when having children which made me really think am I being unreasonable and should I try to go back to full time work after DC2 maternity leave.

I went through finances today to look into my partner taking a paycut due to wanting to get him off nights for his health and then looked at how much better/ worse off we would be if I then went and found a full time job.

I was honestly shocked how much worse off we would be with him taking a paycut to come off nights and me finding a full time job and putting the kids into childcare. We would be about £750 short each month. We do have a bit of debt which would mean we were only £250 short but I can't understand where the logic/motivation is to go back to full time work whilst kids are young if you are worse off or break even.

I would need to earn 40k in order to break even. For people who aren't in high earning professions I just can't understand how they afford to work full time and put kids into childcare. Even when the kids hit school age with before and after school care plus school holidays we would only be a little over breaking even if I worked full time!

I understand people talk about pensions but on a 24k salary (assuming you didn't work your way up) the pension at 67 would only be 5k a year. So what is the point really?

AIBU to say it really isn't worth working full time with kids (that require childcare) unless you are earning a very good salary?

We have explored this but my partner is a retail manager so if he went onto days his shifts aren't fixed. They would be anything from 7am-10pm on any 7 days a week plus commute time so if I went for a full time job we would still need childcare.

I do all my calculations based on our household income. So when I say it makes us -£500 a month that's on our total household income and expenses not just mine.

Well nowadays you get 30 hours a week funded childcare (term time only) and also the tax free childcare. I only work 3 days a week. 50% of my salary goes on childcare. I’m in a normal basic level role, on a basic salary. I am better off working.

I had 5 years off as a SAHM.

I think a few people assumed we were doing better than we were, financially, as I wasn't working.

Our choice was - I go back to work full time, full on and try to earn more than £40k, to pay for a full time nursery place for our child.
Earning less wouldn't have been affordable. We wouldn't have had any extra money, it would have all gone on paying nursery to look after our child 8-6pm, 5 days a week from age 1.

We decided we would rather that I stay at home and tighten our belts for a few years. We bought a smaller, affordable house and had 1 child so we could do it.

I had a 20 year, strong career behind me so wasn't too worried about returning to work. I found a school hours, term time job with great perks once my child went to school.

We don't regret it at all. We did plan carefully before we got pregnant and stuck to 1 child but we're happy with it all.

It's 22 hours spread over the year so after that and tax free childcare its still £1292 a month for full time childcare for 2 children which after a full time salary leaves about £350 a month.

on the other hand I earn £950 working 2 days a week in a sector I can progress in part time or because of the hours but my childcare costs are 0.

Those types of jobs existed years ago but not anymore. They used to be filled by older women and as they retired they've just not been replaced. Easier for most companies to manage FT workers I guess than a load of part timers or job sharers.

Re pension, you can mitigate the effects on the loss of workplace pension by paying into a SIPP. Your husband could pay £2880 a year and the government will top that up to £3600. That's probably more than, or very similar to what, people on a low salary would pay through a workplace pension annually anyway. You'd have to do some careful maths and factor that into the household budget as a cost and compare it to savings of nursery fees and commuting costs etc And have a husband who was decent. I wouldn't want a husband who didn't agree to doing that for me.

The thing that would most worry me is the gap on your CV. It is hard to get a job when you've been unemployed for a while. Things are tough out there. If I were you, I would keep SOMETHING up, work wise. Even if it's only a few hours in the evenings or weekends somewhere. Or agency work every now and again.

What does it matter when the end result is the same. OP is obviously looking at this as a family not just her. She has worked out that her household income won't be enough no matter where the money comes from.

I thank you for your reply. I do work 2 nights a week retail.

NHS pension is DB. One of the best pensions you can get. OP will be contributing to a DC pension. There is no comparison.

I meant to add that wages have dropped so much now that the cost/benefit of working FT in a low paid job these days when you have to pay for childcare is questionable. But more wellpaid jobs bring more stress and responsibility and can have a knock on effect on the whole family's wellbeing in some cases where both of you are less available for young children. There's really no easy answer and all family situations will be different. And not everyone works in a sector where it's accepted that it's easy for everyone to climb the ladder and increase their pay Primary education for a start. We NEED very experienced people in some jobs which don't pay very well.

No-one with both parents working full time should underestimate how stressful it is if you don't have any backup plan for who is going to look after a sick child, or take them to GP or hospital appointments if needed, or go into school for a meeting or event. Those with grandparent support nearby are very lucky.

You usually are better off working part-time than full time in these circumstances but OP isnt talking about working part time she is talking about working full time and thats where it starts to unravel. The 30 hours paid for are fine but the rest of the hours have to come out of wages. 30 hours childcare dosnt mean that you are covered for 30 hours of your paid working week. By the time you take into account say an hour each day of travelling to and from the childcare facility to your work place you are down to only 25 of your actual paid working hours being covered.

The NHS add 23% to your pension…..get a band 2 nhs job and you’ve Got a foot in the nhs door ….you can stay clerical….you can move upwards and be managerial….you can move in A clinical direction..,….my DSis started as a ward clerk……then became a medical secretary….she’s gone from band 2 to band 5 ….only ever worked part time…..only qualifications she ever had were gained in-house from nhs

Out of interest, how long did it take her to go from band 2 to band 5, and what is her band 5 role?

I was nhs band 4 full time before having DC. - was around 25k at the time I think, now 33k about to go to up 34k in april (in scotland). I went back full time and felt at the time my salary was about the cut off that i’d consider it, any less I probably would’ve dropped hours. People were a bit shocked at the time but there are very few band 4 admin roles and even less at full time. I had family help though and only paid 3 days childcare at full end. Was ok until the ukraine war and the energy increases/morgage rates rise happened and it was hard until i got the subsided hours at age 3 but was able go on holiday abroad in that time. Not sure if we could have done it now given the cost of living.

Im glad I did as will have a good pension and in my location, good secure jobs that aren’t seasonal etc are hard to come by. Where I live 34k/yr is a great salary for an admin role, i’m not likely to find similar. My DP earns well, but if I had another I’d probably drop hours for sanities sake. (commute, DPs shift work).

The nhs is full of part time workers….that’s what they prefer…..where I’m based in the community….across the trust area I work…. I would say there are around 40 clerical staff …..maybe 3 or 4 are full time …..and at least 2 of them compress their hours

Partner would be my worry. You're working for your joint future but it's not legally joint if anything went wrong. Nothing wrong with having some time off otherwise if it's right for the family.

She works in HR

Depends how long you were out from your career. 3 or 4 years, fair enough. Any more and you're putting yourself at a huge disadvantage later on down the line.

I know at 30, you just want that time with your children and think it's worth the sacrifice. But I've seen too many marriages go tits up and watched the women desperate because they're unable to be financially independent, reliant on benefits and private rental because the house has to be sold etc etc. The childcare cost is short term. The cost to the woman's financial security long-term is terrible for most.

I went through it with my mother. I've seen friends suffer it. No way in hell am I risking that for myself. It's called the feminisation of poverty for a reason.

It wasn’t worth me going bs k to work until we got the free 15 hours. I went back full time and then they went to school with wrap around care.
My only saving was that dh had a really well paid job and I could stay at home with DDs who were close in age.

Have a look at what it would cost you to replace that £5k a year pension if you try to from the age of, say, 40.

And then look at how hard it is to get even NMW jobs after a period of time out of the market.

Wow I will have a look to see if I can find anything when my maternity leave ends! I would love to not go back to night shifts and never seeing my partner.

I guess it depends if you are career driven. I am not so it doesn't matter if I'm working PT or FT I won't be moving up the ladder. Therefore time with my kids is my priority.
Just editing to say I know someone who has gone Band 3 to Band 8 in NHS clerical so it can be done if you are career minded.

We are getting married this year 😊

I love developing my career. I was sad to give up my career after DS but the hours just couldnt work and I didnt want to miss out on him.

I loved working part time when my children were small and I wouldn’t change it. However what I never thought about was how much this would reduce my pension. I only bothered having enough to manage on at the time. Now I’m older I can see the dent it’s made in my pension. Something everyone should consider. Make any choice you like, but do consider the future.