To say it isn't worth working full time with young kids unless you earn very well?

[Karma1387]

I have done a few posts recently and on a couple its come up frequently how insane it is to give up work/pension etc when having children which made me really think am I being unreasonable and should I try to go back to full time work after DC2 maternity leave.

I went through finances today to look into my partner taking a paycut due to wanting to get him off nights for his health and then looked at how much better/ worse off we would be if I then went and found a full time job.

I was honestly shocked how much worse off we would be with him taking a paycut to come off nights and me finding a full time job and putting the kids into childcare. We would be about £750 short each month. We do have a bit of debt which would mean we were only £250 short but I can't understand where the logic/motivation is to go back to full time work whilst kids are young if you are worse off or break even.

I would need to earn 40k in order to break even. For people who aren't in high earning professions I just can't understand how they afford to work full time and put kids into childcare. Even when the kids hit school age with before and after school care plus school holidays we would only be a little over breaking even if I worked full time!

I understand people talk about pensions but on a 24k salary (assuming you didn't work your way up) the pension at 67 would only be 5k a year. So what is the point really?

AIBU to say it really isn't worth working full time with kids (that require childcare) unless you are earning a very good salary?

They are only pre school age for around 4 years each. For us we'd have been better off if I worked full time and put them in full time nursery but we chose to have me do a 3 day week for less family stress and less juggling (also coloured by eldest having asn and therefore really not coping anytime I tried to up my hours) it worked fine for us and now youngest is starting school I'm working 4-5days a week and managed to further my career past 2 years by doing some qualifications in my own time but financed by work. I would only work more if better off but the people I know who struggled most were those who left the workplace altogether for extended periods of time. Getting back into work can be so hard after 5/6/7 years

Yeah I definitely understand how hard it would be to get a foot back in the door after 5 or more years out of work. Thats one of the reasons i still do 2 nights retail. I'm not sure if it would actually help me get an office job in 5 years as I don't deal with customers working nights but its better than nothing.

@Karma1387you seem very fixated on the £750 figure, have you actually full priced up a variety of scenarios; looking at a full time salary and seeing what support there is (you’d likely progress faster full time) looking at different wage points and role types.

This was me. Not everyone is career minded or earns enough to pay childcare costs (even with the free hours) to work full time with young children. I saw so many women with young children in the higher paying roles at my work, who looked absolutely exhausted running themselves ragged. What’s the point of having a bit extra in your pension for a few years, if it’s caused you to have burnout on the way?

I have fully gone through our finances with partner moving to days and taking a paycut and me moving to a full time role. I have spoken to nursery about how much it will cost in childcare after taking off our free hours and then our 20% tax free childcare.

In our current financial situation we would be about £750 short each month.

It was worth it for me in terms of career progression. A gap is tricky to negotiate in my line of work, you quickly become deskilled and out of date as things change so quickly.

I have to admit I do wonder how parents do it. Full time working ontop of kids does sound a bit miserable. Add in not really getting time with them during the week it must be a little sad even if they love their job!

I would be starting a conpletely new career if I went part time. I couldn't go back to my previous role due to the hours.

I think it's worth mentioning WE chose this option, my husband and I. He had absolutely zero interest in reducing his working hours, he is actually a very good parent, does his share of household tasks, mental load, drop offs, pick ups and really cares about us all. However having a day or 2 a week with 2 pre school aged children on his iwn was not something he wanted to do, he would have been happy enough us both working full time and paying for good childcare or even for me to give up work and him try to earn more. We're married and all income is 1 pot and yes if I'd given up work he'd have had a pension fund going for me because he used to be an accountant and he's very keen on fairness.

There’s always negativity about SAHM’s on here but I lost a parent young so for me life is too short to spend in an office away from my children, I genuinely love my life now! We’ve been able to have three children in quick succession which we’d never have been able to afford if paying for childcare. Also it doesn't have to mean a death for your career. I’ve done some part time volunteering (that I can take children to) in a new area I’ve found a passion for and that’s led to training and qualifications. During my third pregnancy I found things got easier and I then had time to help out friends and family with various bits relating to my previous career, which has recently led from helping for free to regular paid work with one of them, a great job title, and ability to work my own hours around our family!

There seems to be a few things that are working against your household and I really caution against making a blanket statement about how working isn’t worth it.

No shade being thrown by my post here, it is what it is in your situation.

• Retail is not a great sector for both parents to be in as you admit
• even with management the ladder is pretty short and pay opportunity is fairly capped unless you move into a corporate position within your store or move to higher end retail.
• Unless it’s different in the UK retirement matching probably isn’t great —You gave up a managerial position after your first and that’s when your partner moved to nights to help make up the difference for you that might have been a mistake as you are now working as a non manager and only part time. Could be ok for the family. But both can be true at the same time. -You mentioned debt could be ok but obviously not great depending on what is and why you have it. Car so you can get to a job good-ish furniture that wanted bad for examples

Now for the hard parts…because you’ve kind of backed yourself into a corner.
-Usually the lower paid jobs and bad hours come when you’re young without obligations. You’re able to take the lower paying entry level jobs and the trade off between pay and experience is easier.

-The longer you are working just a couple of retail shifts a week the harder it will be to get int any other role.

-You are now losing retirement benefits, earning opportunity, and experience opportunity

My advice…

-unless your house is falling down around you stop spending money renovating.
-spend your time looking for and training for a new career
-Get your partner off night shifts as soon as possible
-Pay off your debt as quickly as possible
-Ignore all the wonky formatting in this post

Thanks for such a long reply.

I did just want to state my partner DID NOT move to nights because of money. He fell asleep at the wheel and crashed whilst awaiting a sleep apnea diagnosis which meant he lost his licence. This resulted in months off work during my maternity leave causing debt and he could no longer commute to his job. The only vacancy available once he got his CPAP machine and was feeling better (but still couldnt drive) that was commutable on public transport was a night vacancy.

The debt is a mixture of some mistakes I made prior to meeting my partner and some is a loan whivh was meant to be used to do up our house which isnt in an amazing condition but as he couldnt work for months it got eaten up.

• we have a couple of bits we need to do to make it a bit safer for the kids but besides that it looks rough but its livable.

• Getting my partner off nights is high on my list we just need to be able to afford it.

• How do you train for a career you aren't in with no idea what will be around in a year or more time?

• if my partner drops to days the debt realistically will have to disappear slowly as we wont have the spare cash but most of it is loans so at least they have a timeframe.

@Karma1387

fair enough about the sleeping thing. I think I knew that from your thread here and yesterday. The reason aside he’s now trapped in it because of the differential.

To the question about what to retrain in , that’s always a hard question without knowing you and your situation in detail. But will try to give some generic advice.

1. Do some searches for careers that are predicted to become in demand (hint anything healthcare related)
2. Look at your current qualifications/area of study. Can you build off that? I’m American so won’t have detailed knowledge or experience.
3. I always give this advice to parents of teenagers so adapt as appropriate “Ask everyone what they do for a living…a lot of careers are not the ones you hear about on school career day or from teachers who haven’t been in the work world outside of academia “. Example Supply Chain is never mentioned but is lucrative and tends to be recession proof.
4. ‘You should be aiming to get back into a full time role in ~3years realistically. Most jobs available now will be there in that timeframe. Don’t listen to the AI doom mongers.
5. Don’t choose a fluff career or field of study.
6. Temp agencies will be your friend… lots of opportunity to explore companies and industries while getting experience and CV building skills

Lol try £110 a day per child, in the south east

Parents, or mums? The vast majority of fathers manage it somehow.

The best arrangement I ever saw was both parents working 4 days compressed hours 4 days a week and 1 day each with the kids and kids in nursery for 3 days.

Her partner doesn’t seem to be willing to do anything like that; it’s on her.

My partners work doesnt offer this for his role. He has asked but it doesn't work for business needs. On nights they dont allow less than 5 nights and if he moved to days and they did allow it, it isnt fixed shifts so even if they allowed 5 days compressed over 4. The days and shifts would alter so the kids would still have to be in childcare which we cant afford.

But he doesn’t have to work there, there’s nothing to stop you both sitting down to together and having the conversation you’re having here. It’s assumed you will take the part time NHS job, I don’t really understand why you’re not both sitting down and working out how to progress as a family together as it doesn’t sound like he’s particularly developed in his career either. Some potential maybe; but sounds like you have some also.

It’s not comparable to talk between the times now and 18 years ago. So much has changed in 18 years financially

I wouldnt ask him to give up his career. Us both starting out in new careers would involve him taking a 30k paycut!! That isnt affordable even if we didn't need to pay childcare!

My partner enjoys his job and has good career prospects. Id never ask him to walk away from his salary or promotion opportunities especially when it would be financially crippling!

I’m assuming you have two close in age if you will have two in nursery for two years? In your case then I would probably take a year or two career break after maternity leave - mine are older and 30 hours funding didn’t exist then so however long it is until that kicks in for the youngest.

I say this not having done this myself - I worked part-time until both in school to keep my career going but I had a 4 year age gap and also was older and well earning at the point of having DC. I only ever had one set of childcare fees at one time.

If you had no further children, it wouldn’t be 10 years though would it? At 3, your Dc would be entitled to 30 hours funding, so the cost of childcare would not be £750 a month!
If you don’t want to work, that’s fine, you have that choice. But there are many options available to ensure both you and your DP can both work. BTW, as a non working parent, your greatest financial risk is not being married to your DP!

Yeah there will be bang on a 2 year age gap so both will be at nursery. I only work 2 days a week basic retail since the end of my maternity leave with DC1 so no need for a career break. I just walked away from it as the hours didnt work for us with childcare availability.

My son is entitled to 30 hours now (its from 9 months) although its only 22 hours in reality. For him to go full time with the funded hours is £190 a week. So for 2 children it is £380 a week over 51 weeks a year is £19380. After tax free childcare it is £15500 a year so £1292 per month!

The £750 number is how much in debt we would go into each month if we paid for full time childcare to enable me to work full time and for DP to take an 8-10k paycut to come off nights for his health.

The best arrangement I ever saw was both parents working 4 days compressed hours 4 days a week and 1 day each with the kids and kids in nursery for 3 days.

Yep! We ended up doing pretty much this arrangement for a few years. I really liked the fact that it impacted both me and my husband in the exact same way, and we understood the stresses the other one had. Which wouldn’t have been the case if I’d worked e.g. 3 days per week, and he’d worked 5,