Uncompromising holiday disagreement

[MalePoster]

I would like some advice and opinions please, either way - I understand this is generally a place for women to post but I’m struggling to find somewhere that men can ask for similar advice.

Some context and background - I have been with my wife for 15 years, married for nearly 9. We have 3 children, 6 yo, 3 yo and 9 months. For as long as I can remember I have covered all of our bills and outgoings (at least since we started having children) and any income my wife has had over that period has been seen as disposable income, paying for holidays etc.. she is self employed so unfortunately this decreases a little when she is on maternity, such as in the past 9 months.. luckily I have been in position financially to be able to provide a decent lifestyle for us as a family, and I do not see being the breadwinner or the sole earner as a problem, however I do see very little gratitude to this fact from my wife as any time I mention money she thinks I’m holding it against her that I am the sole provider financially. I feel like in our lives, I do not make many demands as a husband, and I’m always more than happy to go on the holidays my wife wants and do activities that she wants us to do. She has been keen on buying a campervan for quite a few years and I’ve even come round to the idea and said I would put my Dads inheritance towards buying the campervan (Dad sadly passed last year).

I have recently booked a luxurious 12 day holiday for us as a family to go Dubai. My wife has been keen on going away for a while and I was just trying to time it right with school and work etc, so booked quite last minute. She had said Dubai would be good, and picked a nice resort hotel after we looked together, which I agreed would be a nice break for us as a family and hence why I booked it.

My personal hobby in life is golf, I play to a decent level and like playing nice courses when I can, without it being too unreasonable and inconsiderate to our family life.

I had mentioned a few times that if we went back to Dubai (went 4 years ago), I would like to play golf once during our trip.. this was usually met with the “we’ll see” “depends on timing” etc, like I am asking for permission. Well after I had booked I said that I would quite like to play golf, and it just so happened that our trip overlaps by 4 days with one of our close friend couples (with kids too) from home (I knew we were going to overlap before I booked but coincidence that they happened to be going at similar time).

I have made the suggestion to my wife that on one of the afternoons that we overlap with our friends, me and the other bloke go and play golf, leaving the wives and children all together somewhere to enjoy each others company etc.. well this has been met with a firm no from my wife, with absolutely no compromise or consideration towards my request, which has actually really annoyed me. She has made it clear that she wants the whole 12 day holiday to be family time together and thinks it’s unreasonable for me to go and play golf with my friend on one afternoon, even if it means she gets to spend time with her friend (who was one of her bridesmaids so a pretty close friend).

I have said that I’m more than happy for her to go and do something for her in return, like a spa morning or similar, but she says she doesn’t want to do that and just wants to spend the whole time as a family. Whilst I fully appreciate that, I do not think it makes me a bad person for wanting to do something for me on our holiday, especially considering all of the background to our relationship that I presented above.

What should I do? I really don’t want to back down for the principle of not being in a controlling relationship, and because I really do not think my request is unreasonable or inconsiderate to her or our children when considering the whole situation/scenario at play.

Thanks in advance

It's the age-old conundrum of why are your needs greater than mine?

One wants to play golf, one doesn't. Being completely sexist now, what if she wants to go to a market and he flatly refuses? Is he a bastard? Why are someone else's wants and needs more important?

To hear a lot of people here, as you'd expect on a predominantly women's forum, because she has sacrificed her body, job, pension to birth HIM three children, like she had no choice in the matter and didn't want the children. But if he says he's the breadwinner/main earner, it's thrown around like he has some little man complex on it, but again, very much okay to justify a woman's sacrifices for her family, but not a man's, and very rarely are women picked up when they say they are the breadwinner.

I don't think one round of golf is unreasonable on a morning, like I don't think an afternoon wandering around markets is. It would be a very boring and rather controlling life if you spent every minute of holidays/free time together.

I will say I admire the size of your balls to post this up on a woman's forum mind, in the AIBU. There has been a lack of LTB.

Reading most of this thread OP, I have not changed my mind that you ANBU to play a game of golf. I think your wife's post raised some interesting points about what you've arranged for her on her behalf, and how your arrangements seem to have a degree of coincidence about them.

On the face of it, a half day from 12 is a very fair ask. The fact that your wife wants to martyr herself in a holier than thou " I spend every waking hour with everyone else" holiday doesn't change that, and is frankly unhealthy IMO. But the way that you presented this as being a great day for her and the kids etc. was manipulative. Just own it. As a part of being a parent and a husband, you think its fair that she looks after the kids for half a day while you do your thing. And you are happy to do the same for her, and whether she takes you up on it or not is her call, but her refusal does not give her a veto on your activity.

Make sure it doesn't become more than half a day. And make sure you don't try to engineer more and more games on the trip and be there and present for the rest of the trip.

@MalePoster I understand your wife wants “family” time whilst on holiday as you won’t be distracted by home/work life. I know it’s not the same but there’s an indoor golf facility that also has kids activities in Dubai. Look at 5iron, you can play prestige courses on the simulator, meaning you can all play golf & a different type of holiday activity. Maybe that is an option?

It's always, always fucking golf 🚮

Golf is never a couple of hours and if you read the wife’s post it will impact the whole evening too.

The children are very young. Looking after 3 kids in Dubai round a pool will be impossible- it’s not even safe. She’s explained even lunch wil be tricky.

With the history of holidays been taken over by bloody golf and the fact they have 3 young children then the DH is being very selfish.

Simulator? Really? Whilst fun, its hardly the same. Most towns in the UK have this now. Perhaps they could simulate the holiday by booking a flight simulator, then sit in sauna for a bit, and eat at an Arabian restaurant? Not that people go to Dubai for the culture, mind you.

I think ultimately, the thing with this guy is that the wifes OTHER threads in relation to him show an overall unhappy marriage and this is just evidence of more of the same.

2 people with contrasting wants and needs. Who have managed to cram 3 children into the unhappy mix.

Go play golf for the afternoon. Just don't take the piss and disappear for 10hours.
If she is daft enough to not disappear for a few hours alone, more fool her.

@Everanewbie yes there are but this place is a different level. I went recently and even as a non golfer I enjoyed it whilst hubby and son played on all the games as well as simulator. Everyone has their own opinion but growing up in a house of golfers, I understand golfers wanting to play on holiday. Your sarcasm is noted but until you’ve experienced it you wouldn’t understand. Professional players have visited this place, apparently, so can’t be that bad!! This was offered as an option that might be a compromise.

Beautifully summarised.

I am very well versed on golf simulators, thank you very much. And while they are a fun alternative, especially in the UK winter where courses are shut due to the weather. They are excellent for custom fitting, teaching and obtaining data, but they do not fully replicate the sounds, smells, varying conditions, short game, and the natural flow of a round. Like I said, its like comparing an arcade game to being on a race track, or a youtube video in 4k to actually visiting a rainforest, the Pyramids or whatever.

How is she going to keep the kids safe, fed, and entertained in a hotel environment whilst you are away? If that is all under control then go for it.

What with 3 tiny children in tow?

I presume this poster means that she should disappear at another time, once OP returns from golf.

you lost me at 'gratitude'

I guess things have probably moved on since OP started the thread. Golf least of issues.

Yes, I hope they are both ok. The OP probably wasn’t aware of his wife’s previous threads on here.

Yep the Ops wife is an absolute classic example of exactly why you should name change regularly.... When she posted at first, obviously sceptical I did a username search and now feel I know waaaay more than is healthy of a complete stranger (& certainly way more than she probably wanted her husband to know, at least via MN! 😬)...

Genuinely hope long term they can use this whole experience constructively 🙏 (& she bloody name changes)

When are you and golf friend going to take your turn spending equivalent time doing something nice with the kids while the two wives go off and do their own thing?

It does not seem unreasonable to want to take a morning during your vacation to play golf; however, but there is more to your disagreement than simply taking a few hours away from your family. Your wife may be resisting because she is tired of taking care of the children 24/7, and wants to feel supported when you are all on vacation together. She may also resent the fact that you feel that she should be more grateful to you about your being the "breadwinner" when she is essentially working unpaid for many, many, hours a week. Childcare is very demanding, and it's much easier to go out to work if one has a decent job as one gets to work with adults, hopefully exercise one's intellect, and perhaps even get promoted and perks.

This does not sound like a one-off problem, but symptomatic of some structural issues in your marriage. You and your wife need to talk about how both of you feel about the division of labour and your expectations for each other, ideally with a counsellor. Having children typically puts some strain on marriages, and three is quite a lot.

"I have said that I’m more than happy for her to go and do something for her in return, like a spa morning or similar, but..."

Right there in the OP, HTH

Seems like this round of golf is pretty important to you. A lot of husbands would have just dropped it after the first "no". But you've pushed it by "offering" that she & wife2 can babysit the kids on "their" time off. And again, this time you've had to accept that maybe YOU'LL have to mind the kids. And now, when she still won't cave in, you're posting on Mumsnet about it.

Imagine coming here to get a touch of common sense, you silly sausage.

You'll get chewed up, OP. Netters don't like men to have hobbies, ever!

I think what is so grating is that women spend years pausing their hobbies. No weekly get togethers or band practices or golf trips. It's expected that when you have a family you spend time with family...but only if you're female.

I know I'm biased on this one, but if she's flexible the rest of the time, why can't you be flexible this time?