Uncompromising holiday disagreement

[MalePoster]

I would like some advice and opinions please, either way - I understand this is generally a place for women to post but I’m struggling to find somewhere that men can ask for similar advice.

Some context and background - I have been with my wife for 15 years, married for nearly 9. We have 3 children, 6 yo, 3 yo and 9 months. For as long as I can remember I have covered all of our bills and outgoings (at least since we started having children) and any income my wife has had over that period has been seen as disposable income, paying for holidays etc.. she is self employed so unfortunately this decreases a little when she is on maternity, such as in the past 9 months.. luckily I have been in position financially to be able to provide a decent lifestyle for us as a family, and I do not see being the breadwinner or the sole earner as a problem, however I do see very little gratitude to this fact from my wife as any time I mention money she thinks I’m holding it against her that I am the sole provider financially. I feel like in our lives, I do not make many demands as a husband, and I’m always more than happy to go on the holidays my wife wants and do activities that she wants us to do. She has been keen on buying a campervan for quite a few years and I’ve even come round to the idea and said I would put my Dads inheritance towards buying the campervan (Dad sadly passed last year).

I have recently booked a luxurious 12 day holiday for us as a family to go Dubai. My wife has been keen on going away for a while and I was just trying to time it right with school and work etc, so booked quite last minute. She had said Dubai would be good, and picked a nice resort hotel after we looked together, which I agreed would be a nice break for us as a family and hence why I booked it.

My personal hobby in life is golf, I play to a decent level and like playing nice courses when I can, without it being too unreasonable and inconsiderate to our family life.

I had mentioned a few times that if we went back to Dubai (went 4 years ago), I would like to play golf once during our trip.. this was usually met with the “we’ll see” “depends on timing” etc, like I am asking for permission. Well after I had booked I said that I would quite like to play golf, and it just so happened that our trip overlaps by 4 days with one of our close friend couples (with kids too) from home (I knew we were going to overlap before I booked but coincidence that they happened to be going at similar time).

I have made the suggestion to my wife that on one of the afternoons that we overlap with our friends, me and the other bloke go and play golf, leaving the wives and children all together somewhere to enjoy each others company etc.. well this has been met with a firm no from my wife, with absolutely no compromise or consideration towards my request, which has actually really annoyed me. She has made it clear that she wants the whole 12 day holiday to be family time together and thinks it’s unreasonable for me to go and play golf with my friend on one afternoon, even if it means she gets to spend time with her friend (who was one of her bridesmaids so a pretty close friend).

I have said that I’m more than happy for her to go and do something for her in return, like a spa morning or similar, but she says she doesn’t want to do that and just wants to spend the whole time as a family. Whilst I fully appreciate that, I do not think it makes me a bad person for wanting to do something for me on our holiday, especially considering all of the background to our relationship that I presented above.

What should I do? I really don’t want to back down for the principle of not being in a controlling relationship, and because I really do not think my request is unreasonable or inconsiderate to her or our children when considering the whole situation/scenario at play.

Thanks in advance

I don’t know, I would be thrilled for childfree time on my own during a holiday. I would happily exchange it for a morning of you playing golf.

if you were playing golf all day or not helping with the children at all during the holiday, I would certainly be pissed off. Children are considerably more hardwork during holidays.

It nothing to do with money. And who pays what.
One afternoon playing golf is good for your physical and mental health and is not too much to ask for. What makes my dh happy matters to me and if it was playing golf I would support that - as long as it wasnt a significant amount of time. If you were wanting to go every day or every other day and leave her with the kids that would be unreasonable but one afternoon should be fine. A non issue.
I also dont think she gets to just say no. The other way round it wouldnt be ok either.
Having said that. She has three young kids alot. You get to be around adults more. Is she struggling and needing this holiday for a break. Maybe think about why she isnt agreeing. Is it because she isnt coping well and if so how do you want to respond to that? Has she been pouring out from empty for too long. Does she get time to herself in the normal working week? Could the baby go to nursery a day a week to give her regular time to herself? Is there something bigger thats stopping her agreeing to this - is she burnt-out?

You’ve made several remarks like this rubbing your hands at the thought of the comeuppance she would get as a single parent and yet at the same time claiming to find it so easy to look after children.

You take a few hours out to play golf while she looks after kids…she takes a few hours out to go to spa or whatever she wants while OP looks after kids. What on earth is wrong with that!? Not every moment has to be spent all together and it’s a holiday for the adults as well as the kids - the grown ups should be allowed some time to do what they want on holiday too.

My dh mentioned shooting on an upcoming holiday once, didn’t happen. If I had wanted to not see him all day I’d stay at home.

Your poor wife.

There is definitely more trouble in this relationship than an afternoon playing golf.

While I don't like the husband's tone I also think @DisneyBaby is in serious danger of losing herself completely here. She has admitted she doesn't have hobbies or things she wants to do for herself and that all she wants to do with her time is spend it with the husband and kids and I'm not sure that's healthy. I'm not saying she should take up golf but at some point there was presumably more to her life than this. Where is that person now?

I don't appreciate a man who doesn't do his share but I would also find someone who wanted to spend every minute together in that way very cloying and suffocating. There's nothing wrong with getting a bit of space from each other as long as it's fairly shared out between both. Unfortunately it seems she doesn't want that so I don't know how you would solve this.

Somehow @DisneyBaby as an individual has been lost in wife and motherhood, how much because she chose to or how much because she was forced into that position by an unhelpful or unpleasant husband I don't know, but I don't think it's fair on him or the kids to have to take that position of resposibility ofr her every happiness and I don't think it's healthy for her either.

It's not helpful for this holiday. She shouldn't have to do a spa morning or take up golf or performatively start yoga or anything else she doesn't want to so the husband can feel better about doing whatever the fuck he wants whenever the fuck he wants, but I'd say she needs to work out who she is now outside of him and the kids.

Your original post oozes with comments about money, and it's obvious that you do remind your wife regularly that you are the bread winner. I think that's absolutely disgraceful.

She has grown and borne you THREE children. To significant detriment to her body, I'm sure. She has also sacrificed her career and her pension, to be present at home. If she worked full time, you'd have to employ a child minder/nanny/nursery, you would have extra commuting fees, you would need a cleaner perhaps.

If you fucked off and left her tomorrow, she would literally have nothing. It's such a risky position for her to be in. With huge gaps in her resume, she might struggle to find employment, and when she reaches pension age, she won't be drawing anything like you money wise.

Honestly, you need to have a total rethink about your attitude, because it's awful.

On the golfing note, I do think your wife is being unreasonable. But that has nothing to do with money! The fact you spoke about money in your Op, just shows that you think you can use the "bread winner" status to push your argument.

She has sacrificed her body, her health, her career, her future employment prospects, her pension, and I'm sure at times her sanity, trying to care for YOUR three children, whilst you wield the "bread winner" status in her face. I'm raging on her behalf.

What have you sacrificed, bar sperm (which I'm sure you enjoyed at the time)?

I find it hard to believe that men like this exist.

These are fair points except that the children are very young. I remember promising myself that when my youngest was a year old I would get back out there and start the two activities I had my eye on. Before then it would have been too much.

@DisneyBaby

YOU might want every single minute of your holiday to be family time but your husband doesn’t. And that’s ok, you have to respect that. He wants to play golf and in return he is offering you time to yourself you’re just not taking it - that’s on you 🤷‍♀️ but you can’t want or expect him to not want and need a break and to do activities he enjoys on holiday. A family holiday has to be enjoyable for everyone involved.

I’ve been a ‘golf widow’ so I know how much time golf can take up; it’s not just the regular playing but the ‘recovering’ afterwards, the socialising, and all the time they think about/obsess over golf! Then there’s the cost of it (membership and all the equipment) - it’s fine for rich retired men but for anyone else it does have a big impact on the family. It sound like OP had made golf a priority in his life despite having 3 small children. If his wife is doing most of the childcare for 3 kids, housework, plus working for herself to earn money for the family (not to spend on her own hobbies) then no wonder she is frustrated. Clearly the holiday was booked so that the OP could play golf there, confirming that this is his priority. Then he’s gaslighting her by making out he’s ‘only asking a for few hours’ and that she’s being unreasonable (along with many of the comments here which was obviously his intention). Luckily my partner gave up golf before we had a baby together (his choice). OP needs to get over it and actually listen to what his wife is trying to say to him. It’s not about the one morning, it’s the way that his obsession with golf is affecting how is treating his family including lying, acting entitled and generally being disrespectful. It depends if OP still wants to prioritise golf knowing this?

OP, have you ever offered to have all 3 kids so your wife can do something on her own, without it being in return for you playing golf?

She's being unreasonable. It would be one game. Maybe she feels overwhelmed at being with the 3 children, which is understandable. Is there something you could encourage her to do for an afternoon off?

"Ex" because he broke my spine

It wasnt due to holiday activities!

That's because most people just think about 'wanting the baby' as opposed to 'wanting to be a parent'. The two are VERY different things and, ultimately, are the reason we decided to remain child free.

On another note, the responses on here are WILD. No wonder so many marriages are so utterly miserable.

No, I have only seen the original post and read 5-10 pages of comments. I haven't seen any back story of a previous attempt to book a week long trip, so my comments was based on the OP.

My experience/comment was regarding a standard family holiday, where both parents get some time to do what they want alone, as well as time spent together as a family.

But I think you’re missing the point here. YOU would find that acceptable, but YOU are not this man’s wife. When you have young children you need to be a team. No, it is not unreasonable to spend some time doing something on your own, if you’ve decided together that this is OK. The wife here solo parents for half one day every weekend so this man can do his hobby. I’ll bet my house that wasn’t her idea. She is already having her time dictated. Offering her something she DOESN’T WANT is fair in the sense it’s an equal transaction (and maybe many people, including you, would be happy with that) but it is not fair in the sense that one partner is choosing how to spend their time on a family holiday, thus meaning the other parent is solo parenting 3 young children by default. (Which we all know is hard work). She hasn’t chosen that. She is having that imposed on her by her husband. He has offered for her to have a transaction of equal value, yes. But the offer is meaningless if it isn’t something she actually wants. He is controlling her time once (by forcing her to solo parent so he can go off and play golf and she can “have a lovely time with her friend and the kids”) and then controlling her time AGAIN by telling her she should just have a spa afternoon to make him feel better about doing his golf.

She doesn’t want that! She wants a family holiday where they spend time together and not each of them going off/solo parenting in exchange.
You don’t get to unilaterally decide how family time is spent. You decide together. Sounds like he decides every weekend that she will be solo parenting while he plays golf. He may think this is fine, but it sounds like she might really resent this. In which case, when he says he’s going off to play golf on their family holiday, she’s put her foot down and said no. Not this time. You or I might be happy with the offer of a spa day, but she isn’t. That doesn’t make her unreasonable.

I know someone whose toddler drowned in a pool whilst she changed her baby's nappy on a sun lounger on holiday. Totally tragic, but illustrates that until your children are old enough to be safe in the water on their own you need to have your eyes on them at all times around a pool. Being left alone with kids this age at a pool would be a hard no from me. Even with another Mum and another two small kids added in it's too risky imo.

At my local pool 2 under 9s is the max one adult can supervise on their own. Three kids at the pool at that age, including a baby is dangerous.

Also please don't lose sight of the fact that this excuse for a dad does golf on both days at the weekend throughout the summer. And spent 3 days of their 1 week holiday playing golf last year. The people sticking up for him on this thread are gullible and have been played.

I agree, it's really dangerous. It's also typical to have ratios of 1-1 for babies - my friend had twins and couldn't take them both swimming together at her local pool. Losing a child to drowing whilst you are focused on their sibling is horrific and worst case scenario, but it's absolutely why these ratios are put in place. In this situation I'd expect one parent to focus on the baby and the other to watch the two younger kids. Adding the other mum and two more children into the equation still doesn't make for safe ratios. OP and his wife chose to have three kids. If they are going to go on pool holidays he needs to be prepared to help supervise them until the oldest two are 8 and can swim. If he wanted to go on pool holidays and swan off to play golf they should have agreed to stop at two kids.

Well it’s obviously not about the golf.

Like others have said you seem resentful that she doesn’t bow down to you and show her constant appreciation that you work.

She also works it appears but at the same time also looks after and has given birth to three children. Where’s your appreciation and acknowledgment of what she does?

Of course her earnings dipped on maternity - what has that got to do with anything!! You should have been happily supporting her not taking a note of this.

I’m sure if you were less resentful and more appreciative of her then the afternoon of golf wouldn’t be off the table.

However, as a golf widow it’s very annoying when you downplay how much time golf takes. It’s basically a whole day let’s be honest. So that might have something to do with it too.

Also leaving her with the kids means she wouldn’t have a relaxing day. You need to offer to take the kids on your own for the day and she has a day off too. And then it starts to not really become a family holiday. More like a tag team.

I originally voted Yanbu but I would like to change my vote as i think you may have been economical with the truth. It's a shame I can't see your wife's post, so just have to try to interpret your critique of it. If I've got this right, you have previously taken a weeks family holiday and played golf with your friends for half of it. You also say "you wanted to take your friends on a golf holiday" (were you intending to pay for them?) which didn't happen. So you have arranged a family holiday instead, where you can still play golf with your friends.
I don't think there is anying wrong with someone taking an afternoon on holiday to participate in a hobby. However, it appears you have organised and orchestrated this holiday to satisfy your golf needs and your wife and children's needs and desires are irrelevant. I think your wife doubts this will be one round of golf (as do i) and the idea of setting her up with a play date is insulting.

The wife’s posts are still here under username DisneyBaby

Heres the first post

DisneyBaby · Yesterday 06:48
I am the original posters wife.
Here is my take on this and I feel there are a few key elements missing.
Firstly, this is not the first time that golf has effected a holiday. Our last proper holiday was to Cornwall last August, a holiday we take every year on our own and spend quality time together, and my DH, the OP, wanted to invite his golfer friends and their wives and kids. They played 3 times in a week and it felt like the whole week was planned around their golf arrangements. It completely ruined our normal family holiday, and I don’t think the other wives enjoyed the trip either tbh as we all generally feel second best to the golf. So I am done with golf on holiday.
Our friends are not saying at the same resort so DH is suggesting we go to their hotel and I spend the day there with the 3 children (don’t even know if this would be allowed) and then get ready for dinner there ready to have dinner altogether when they get back. Therefore meaning I need to pack a bag and get ready somewhere that’s not our own hotel room with our things, again with 3 young kids. Which just seems like hard work. I’m happy to meet with them and do something fun altogether or dinner, just not keen on having 5 young kids with us two women, hers are 4 and 1 so between us, we would have 6, 4, 3, 1 and 0 aged kids.
If I chose to stay at our hotel instead of meeting with my friend, I will have to look after 3 young kids by the pool by myself which I don’t feel is safe. I will spend the whole day saying ‘stay close, not too far’ etc to my kids who will just want to play with no restrictions. If one of them needs to toilet, we will all have to go coz I can’t leave any on their own etc. And I don’t even know how I would navigate a buffet restaurant for breakfast, lunch or dinner with a baby in one arm and 4 plates in the other for us all.
As a few people have mentioned. I often feel burnt out and overwhelmed with all the housework and taxying the kids round at home and I look forward to family holidays as a way to enjoy the kids and our family without having all the added stress of housework and rushing around. I’m honestly not bothered about time for me because my favourite thing to do is genuinely spend time with my children and together as a family but there is a big difference between spending time with the kids on my own vs spending time with them with my husband there.
I’m not saying no to golf forever. I’m just saying not right now. When our son is older, they can go off and play together and I’ll stay with our daughters. Or when our kids are grown, we can do numerous couples and friends holidays and I’ll happily have some me time on a lounger then and do a puzzle book. But right now we’re in our young family phase in life, I need my husband to be present, and I want to soak up every single moment of family time on holiday together.
To all those who think I was being unreasonable. Do you think this the same after I have explained my views?

If you were my friend I'd tell you to grow a pair..being a wet lettuce is not an attractive trait.

Assuming kids are fine. Just inform her of plans, no discussions.

I think this man wants opinions on his holiday about playing golf .now being hounded for saying breadwinner. I have seen women do this on here and no one says a thing.