Uncompromising holiday disagreement

[MalePoster]

I would like some advice and opinions please, either way - I understand this is generally a place for women to post but I’m struggling to find somewhere that men can ask for similar advice.

Some context and background - I have been with my wife for 15 years, married for nearly 9. We have 3 children, 6 yo, 3 yo and 9 months. For as long as I can remember I have covered all of our bills and outgoings (at least since we started having children) and any income my wife has had over that period has been seen as disposable income, paying for holidays etc.. she is self employed so unfortunately this decreases a little when she is on maternity, such as in the past 9 months.. luckily I have been in position financially to be able to provide a decent lifestyle for us as a family, and I do not see being the breadwinner or the sole earner as a problem, however I do see very little gratitude to this fact from my wife as any time I mention money she thinks I’m holding it against her that I am the sole provider financially. I feel like in our lives, I do not make many demands as a husband, and I’m always more than happy to go on the holidays my wife wants and do activities that she wants us to do. She has been keen on buying a campervan for quite a few years and I’ve even come round to the idea and said I would put my Dads inheritance towards buying the campervan (Dad sadly passed last year).

I have recently booked a luxurious 12 day holiday for us as a family to go Dubai. My wife has been keen on going away for a while and I was just trying to time it right with school and work etc, so booked quite last minute. She had said Dubai would be good, and picked a nice resort hotel after we looked together, which I agreed would be a nice break for us as a family and hence why I booked it.

My personal hobby in life is golf, I play to a decent level and like playing nice courses when I can, without it being too unreasonable and inconsiderate to our family life.

I had mentioned a few times that if we went back to Dubai (went 4 years ago), I would like to play golf once during our trip.. this was usually met with the “we’ll see” “depends on timing” etc, like I am asking for permission. Well after I had booked I said that I would quite like to play golf, and it just so happened that our trip overlaps by 4 days with one of our close friend couples (with kids too) from home (I knew we were going to overlap before I booked but coincidence that they happened to be going at similar time).

I have made the suggestion to my wife that on one of the afternoons that we overlap with our friends, me and the other bloke go and play golf, leaving the wives and children all together somewhere to enjoy each others company etc.. well this has been met with a firm no from my wife, with absolutely no compromise or consideration towards my request, which has actually really annoyed me. She has made it clear that she wants the whole 12 day holiday to be family time together and thinks it’s unreasonable for me to go and play golf with my friend on one afternoon, even if it means she gets to spend time with her friend (who was one of her bridesmaids so a pretty close friend).

I have said that I’m more than happy for her to go and do something for her in return, like a spa morning or similar, but she says she doesn’t want to do that and just wants to spend the whole time as a family. Whilst I fully appreciate that, I do not think it makes me a bad person for wanting to do something for me on our holiday, especially considering all of the background to our relationship that I presented above.

What should I do? I really don’t want to back down for the principle of not being in a controlling relationship, and because I really do not think my request is unreasonable or inconsiderate to her or our children when considering the whole situation/scenario at play.

Thanks in advance

There's some real differences in the stories between OP and his wife. He says half a day to play. She says its a whole day that he wants her to spend at their friend's hotel and then stay on for dinner with the friends after. That sounds exhausting for the wife.

@DisneyBaby I’m honestly not bothered about time for me because my favourite thing to do is genuinely spend time with my children and together as a family

I want to soak up every single moment of family time on holiday together.

good god that’s wet! It’s an afternoon, if you spend time with your friend SHE can help with food etc, staff at the hotel can help, is this resort a family one? Kids club etc?

your life needs more colour than being forced to be joined at the hip, whether you recognise this or not. Otherwise resentment creeps in and that’s the death of your relationship right there.

I get that 3 golf days in Cornwall was excessive, so that’s your starting point, one golf days MAX, BECAUSE he took it to the extreme the last time. @MalePoster Take note of this, YOU were your own worst enemy in that situation.

Life is too short to be selfish, and that works both ways, but at the same time, it’s important to have fun.

@DisneyBaby you need to develop interests that are not all about your kids. THEY need to understand that it’s not all about them 24/7 and that they have both parents to help them.

She isn’t bothered about time off from the kids! She wants a family holiday where they can relax and do stuff together.
Theres no benefit to her to be packed off to a spa she doesn’t want. She can have a facial back home.

She might have put herself out if the last family holiday hadn’t have turned into a boys golfing trip though.

You keep referring to yourself as the breadwinner and sole earner. You aren't! You aren't respecting her contribution. She's earning and the primary parent.

i think she's probably pissed off about the happy coincidence that your friends are going at the same time. She might not want to spend her holiday with your joint friends irrespective of how much she likes them. She might be anxious about the overlap. Does that mean they will be with you for 4 days? Now she needs to worry about other people and their kids as well as your own. She also might not be happy with all the conversations and organising behind her back. You've planned everything and discussed everything with your friend without her input or consideration. I wouldn't be impressed. It's sneaky. I'd feel imposed upon.

How about you start showing some gratitude to your wife for her massive contribution to your life? She’s had 3 babies for you.

It sounds like you'd be better off without the man child who prioritises hitting balls with a stick over his family. Dressing yet another golf holiday up as a treat for you is pretty selfish.

I think your wife would be a mug to fall for the "oh-so-accidentally booked to go Dubai at the exact same time as my best golfing buddy" line... Of all the countries, all the people, and all the days of the year, you just "happened" to book to be in the same place at the same time as your bestie? Pull the other one.

How did your holiday last year go?

Hi OP,

I have read all your comments here but not all of the other comments. However, I think what may be useful for you here is some context.

First of all, please try and read this with openness and curiosity about what may be going on behind the scenes. I am not here to attack you.

I think what is playing out here is the mismatch between communication with males and females. What I mean by that is that you are defending your position so strongly, and she is defending hers, without either of you really stepping back and looking at the wider context.

As the male, you are seeing that you work hard and provide for your family. You want to have this luxury holiday with them that you see, at least in part (and this is totally valid) something you have provided for them. You also want to have some time to decompress and do the hobby you love. Perfectly reasonable.

As a female, your wife is seeing that she is working hard and providing for your family. Her part of the deal is raising your children, keeping your home, and trying to provide a foundation from which you can go out (I know you work remotely) to work and bring back money. She wants to have this luxury holiday as a point where you come back into the fold of the family and reconnect with her and the children. She wants to feel like she is the priority. She wants you to want to focus on her. Perfectly reasonable.

Where you may be clashing has clues in your post. You have positioned yourself as breadwinner, which while true, makes me wonder whether somehow (and I am not saying it’s your fault) the message your wife is hearing is that you are the one with all the power and control and she’s somehow lesser than you because she’s not earning. Society contributes a lot to this message because there is now the expectation women must be career driven AND raise a family perfectly - both of which is almost always impossible at the same time.

Ultimately, what she wants is to feel valued. You need to address that with words and actions. Women tend to mirror back what men show. Shower her with abundance and she will respond with the same. Once you have readdressed the balance (and I am suggesting you are the one to do so - partly because you are the one posting asking for advice and partly because masculine energy leads) you will find she won’t care that you want to play golf or spend time with friends - because she will already know she is number one.

The wife is needy and controlling. She enjoys suffering and expects everyone to do the same. I realised when she said she does not want any time for herself she is one of the parents who life to be martyrs for the sake of it and then complains, but then says she doesnt need any free time but is exhausted. Some people enjoy being in this vicious circle. It's suffocating if you are living with someone like this. Not having hobbies does not make anyone a better parent, and she really needs to understand that.

And he's still fucking off to golf while she's how with a 6, 3 and 9 month old. It's okay though because he's home by lunchtime and he deserves a break. These men.

Typical Mumsnet derailing the thread and jumping to conclusions.

Your wife is being really unreasonable. Regardless of anything else. Even I know Dubai has some world renowned golf courses and I can't for the life of me understand why you can't go play a game of golf on holiday.

We go away for 2 weeks every summer with another family and there is no issue at all with either of us taking time or ourselves or doing something with one of the other adults.

It's what people who love each other do.

Edited for typos.

Did you read the update from the OPs wife, where he is not only going off to golf but is controlling what she will be doing with her time while he is doing this. He wants her to pack and spend a whole day from their accommodation.

Well the Cornwall trip sounds a bit of a nightmare frankly, I'd be pretty furious about that, so you are definitely owed one for that.
I can also see how the just an afternoon actually means a very hard day for you. But could you book your two eldest into a kids club for the day, stay at your resort and enjoy peaceful time with your baby? I always loved a chance to be one on one with my youngest (I only have two), it's hard always having to divert time to the others. If you stay at your resort, you can pop down to the kids club once or twice to check on them if you feel you need to, or get the three year old back a bit earlier.
Forget about meeting up with your friend, have yourself a peaceful day, and let your husband have a bit of time for himself this time. You can keep Cornwall in your back pocket for another day. (And add this to the tally!)

I remember you posting about that holiday last year. If that were me and my dh hadn’t immediately booked me on an amazing two week solo trip after pulling that incredibly selfish fuckery he’d have been my ex.
this post is full of all the same bullshit about I’m happy for my wife to have time on her own, by that I mean I am convinced she will love spending our family holiday with my golfer buddies wives even though she’s shouting at me that I’m so selfish and she hates this plan, I’m still right. You are thus close to your wife refusing to get on the plane ti Dubai at all, you totally fucked your chances of playing golf on holiday for years with that selfish fuckery last year and nobody gives a shit that Dubai has great golf courses. Should have booked somewhere else if you were going to be sad about not golfing.

The other thing is is the title - what is the compromise though what is the OP suggesting and does he really get what he is asking

It sounds like a bot has written this.

if not, help your wife. Don’t orchestrate holiday plans around your golf and actually listen to her. ( I’ve read post from her pov)

But if the dates hadn't overlapped, you wouldn't have had a partner to play golf with, I assume. I can understand your wife's desire to have family time throughout the holiday - I'd have felt the same when our children were young. Two parents to share the responsibilities for 12 days versus the usual busy home life.

Also I assume you see these friends at home? So could play golf with your friend at other times, and she has opportunities to meet his wife, her friend too? Why waste holiday time meeting up with people you can see any time of the year?

OTOH my DH has sometimes played tennis with people he's met on holiday if the resort has had tennis courts. I didn't begrudge that as long as he wasn't leaving me alone with the children for a huge chunk of the day. Though golf DOES tend to last hours whereas tennis in a hot climate doesn't.

Think I'm on your wife's side actually.

DisneyBaby. How do you feel about how your STBXH portrays himself and you? Is he always selfish and self serving?

I actually think the whole tone of your post is off. An undertone of resentment, superiority and patronisation.
your request isn’t unreasonable.
but I so wonder what you wife would say…

I didn't realise @DisneyBaby had responded as @MalePoster 's wife when I posted. I think what she posted explains exactly what I expected the background was. If there was a team I'd be sitting beside DisneyBaby.

How much do you help your wife on a daily basis?

How many days a month are you off playing golf?

What strikes me from your post, OP, is that you think that her looking after the kids in a nice place while you play golf is somehow her having time off too. It isn't. How about you looking after the kids for an equivalent amount of time, so she can go and have some child-free time?

OP I read your thread last night and didn’t comment as something felt off. I’ve read your wife’s thread today and the further comments here.

I think you are being incredibly manipulative and unfair to your wife. You started this thread with a lot of information missing - crucially last year’s golf holiday - in order to manipulate numerous women into agreeing with you. Presumably you then showed the thread to your poor wife and said “look all these women thing you’re being U, I’m right”.

Moreover, you have manipulated this holiday into a golfing holiday again. The plan was possibly to go to the Canaries on different dates, and suddenly changed to Dubai. When, as I understand it, you knew golfing buddy would be there, but it seems she didn’t know that. That’s dishonest and manipulative again.

You also keep saying you are the “breadwinner” when she also works, and somehow as though it entitles you to some sort of priority over her. When she’s enabling you to work the job you work by caring for your joint children. She brings more to the table than you do.

She just wants a holiday that is solely a family holiday. To feel that you actually want to be with her and your joint children. That there isn’t this (in her eyes) incredibly stressful time in the middle of the holiday, that she’d thought would be relaxing. I can understand why she doesn’t want to be left with them all AT ALL by the pools. Neither does she want you to do the same so she can go off, as she doesn’t think it’s safe.

UK pools wouldn’t allow that combination of children to one adult because it isn’t safe - their ratios wouldn’t allow it. If one child gets into trouble in the water, what does she do, with an eight month old in her arms?

Just have a holiday with your family for goodness sake.

Also, I’d be flabbergasted if the afternoon of golf (she says it’s a day, I think?) doesn’t turn into more.