Uncompromising holiday disagreement

[MalePoster]

I would like some advice and opinions please, either way - I understand this is generally a place for women to post but I’m struggling to find somewhere that men can ask for similar advice.

Some context and background - I have been with my wife for 15 years, married for nearly 9. We have 3 children, 6 yo, 3 yo and 9 months. For as long as I can remember I have covered all of our bills and outgoings (at least since we started having children) and any income my wife has had over that period has been seen as disposable income, paying for holidays etc.. she is self employed so unfortunately this decreases a little when she is on maternity, such as in the past 9 months.. luckily I have been in position financially to be able to provide a decent lifestyle for us as a family, and I do not see being the breadwinner or the sole earner as a problem, however I do see very little gratitude to this fact from my wife as any time I mention money she thinks I’m holding it against her that I am the sole provider financially. I feel like in our lives, I do not make many demands as a husband, and I’m always more than happy to go on the holidays my wife wants and do activities that she wants us to do. She has been keen on buying a campervan for quite a few years and I’ve even come round to the idea and said I would put my Dads inheritance towards buying the campervan (Dad sadly passed last year).

I have recently booked a luxurious 12 day holiday for us as a family to go Dubai. My wife has been keen on going away for a while and I was just trying to time it right with school and work etc, so booked quite last minute. She had said Dubai would be good, and picked a nice resort hotel after we looked together, which I agreed would be a nice break for us as a family and hence why I booked it.

My personal hobby in life is golf, I play to a decent level and like playing nice courses when I can, without it being too unreasonable and inconsiderate to our family life.

I had mentioned a few times that if we went back to Dubai (went 4 years ago), I would like to play golf once during our trip.. this was usually met with the “we’ll see” “depends on timing” etc, like I am asking for permission. Well after I had booked I said that I would quite like to play golf, and it just so happened that our trip overlaps by 4 days with one of our close friend couples (with kids too) from home (I knew we were going to overlap before I booked but coincidence that they happened to be going at similar time).

I have made the suggestion to my wife that on one of the afternoons that we overlap with our friends, me and the other bloke go and play golf, leaving the wives and children all together somewhere to enjoy each others company etc.. well this has been met with a firm no from my wife, with absolutely no compromise or consideration towards my request, which has actually really annoyed me. She has made it clear that she wants the whole 12 day holiday to be family time together and thinks it’s unreasonable for me to go and play golf with my friend on one afternoon, even if it means she gets to spend time with her friend (who was one of her bridesmaids so a pretty close friend).

I have said that I’m more than happy for her to go and do something for her in return, like a spa morning or similar, but she says she doesn’t want to do that and just wants to spend the whole time as a family. Whilst I fully appreciate that, I do not think it makes me a bad person for wanting to do something for me on our holiday, especially considering all of the background to our relationship that I presented above.

What should I do? I really don’t want to back down for the principle of not being in a controlling relationship, and because I really do not think my request is unreasonable or inconsiderate to her or our children when considering the whole situation/scenario at play.

Thanks in advance

Honestly it’s not a big deal for you to go and play golf for an afternoon. She sounds controlling or she’s very resentful for some reason you haven’t picked up on.

I’ve read the wife’s update and I agree going to another hotel will be a faff and stressful so just stay at the hotel… it’s one morning of this holiday. Get room service breakfast or go to a table service place. Put the eldest in a kids club. Maybe the 3 year old too. The baby will be in a pram.

She gets an easier time on holiday but what about the husband wanting one morning to do something he wants? Or he can put them on the plane home and he stays out an extra two nights. She has no interest in anything except her family but that’s not to say he has to drop his interests.

Please read the full thread where the OP’s wife has posted to explain (with much more hand wringing than his post incidentally) why it is a ‘big deal’.

Your words of controlling and resentful are so off the mark I can only assume you’re one of those people who automatically side with him
because he’s a man. 🙄

The holiday is a red herring. You both have a serious golf problem and a serious relationship problem. Op you are playing too much golf year round and now you have booked a holiday specifically to play golf with your mate, having also ruined the last holiday by turning it into a golf holiday. I don't think this relationship is going to last.

I think wanting to play golf once is perfectly fine on a family holiday. However suggesting she meets up with your golf friends wife and kids probably wouldn't go down well. I think if you get an afternoon off so should she. Maybe a better suggestion would have been to tell her you would like to go play golf with your friend one afternoon but she should get a child afternoon so why no go get her nails done, a facial etc one afternoon. Me and dh do this on holiday. He goes and watches football a couple of times in a nearby pub but on a different afternoon I get a facial and massage etc.

As a mum of 3 kids I do most of the day to day care (and work part time) I would say do not under estimate how exhausting 3 Young kids are. The main earner often doesn't do the day to day care and just works. Whilst the other parent stays home and does everything else and ultimately works far more hours.

Even before your wife posted, I thought you were being unreasonable. The tone of your posts is just not the tone of someone who wanted to come up with a compromise where both you and your wife were happy, they were the tone of someone who wanted their own way. And your wife has confirmed that.

You are in the trenches right now. Golf needs to wait until your DC are older. Holidays need to be children focused. Of course you should both get an opportunity to have some time to yourselves on a holiday but golf is one of those things that takes a really long time, and usually turns into drinks so takes even longer. Personally I think you should cancel Dubai and revisit it in 5 years time. A beach holiday somewhere is a much better option

I know of a marriage that ended in divorce over golf. Yes the husband only played once a week. Unlike everyone saying it was half a day, the golf only lasted about 5 hours but he had to travel there and back, get his golfing equipment ready and he had a drink in the clubhouse afterwards. When he got home he was often too tired to do much. The problem came when the wife insisted as they were both working, the other day at the weekend was hers and he would be looking after the children. They had no time as a family at the weekend.
I think when you have young children, then the bulk of the weekend should be spent with them. Yes you can have a few hours each but this is such a short time in families lives. When they are older you can have all the time you want to do your hobbies.

I'm always really uncomfortable with men coming here to ask women to judge their marriage.

It's like they want validation from the whole of womankind that they are being reasonable and their wife is being unreasonable.

We only hear their side of it and it is yet again men turning to women for emotional support and validation.

It's significant that there are no similar sites for men - because men do not see it as their role to offer each other emotional support or help each other work through their relationship issues.

However, the Reddit relationship and marriage boards would be somewhere that OP could go that wasn't a women's space.

The baby and toddler phase is exhausting and you need both of you to share the load 24/7 365 days of the year because the kids needs are there 24/7. In an equal team this world mean equal space/time for non kids/non paid work downtime.
DH likes golf, I play a team sport. Neither of us played our sports every weekend whilst the kids were this age. Probably every 3-4 weeks if that. I couldn't play my team sport because that's not enough commitment and he probably played 4-6 times a year. This was until the youngest was around 6 or 7. From then until the kids were mid teens we had a bit more time, but we were still considerate enough to each other to regularly adjust/check in etc.
On holidays when the kids were young we would give each other solo down time. But no more than half a day. Just because unfortunately kids were often harder when on holiday (out of routine, wired with excitement, no access to all the toys/trampoline/friends). Neither of us would have thought it fair at that age/stage to fuck off for the day. Post aged around 6 or 7 different again... But you're not there yet.
If the Cornwall holiday is true and you did select Dubai to sneak in golf you're beginning to sound like a bit of a dick tbh....

Lolz at the holiday just happening to coincide with a golfer friend going. Men really do think us women are stupid dont they 🙄

Do you have a literacy problem? You’ve managed to read that he plays golf on both days of the weekend when he clearly states it’s one morning at most. And presently one morning every 3 weeks…

Yes working full time is normal but looking after your kids is normal too but she’s forgotten that his job allows her to not rush back to work after the last baby. She could work full time and they could pay a nanny and cleaner and she’d be way more exhausted being a working mum.

I predict this will be a marriage where she’s lost her identity and focusses solely on the kids. He will feel unappreciated but He will stay with his wife til the kids grow up as he won’t want to lose them but this kind of controlling selfish behaviour will ultimately see her on her own when the youngest grows up. Or he could meet someone else and just have the kids every other weekend and then she’d know what hard work is being a single mum. What she’s complaining about for one half day is what her life will be permanently if she doesn’t consider her husband.

And if life is too hard for one morning in a luxury hotel then god knows how a holiday in a camper van would work! 🤣

I think this is the crux of it. You believe you are a very present father and do a 'fair' share. Does your wife actually feel the same?

I'm not saying it to criticise - for what it's worth what you are asking doesn't sound at all unreasonable to me and I wouldn't have any issue with my husband doing it.

However there are a lot of men who genuinely believe they are great contributors to their household and are doing plenty and are very much equal partners. In reality, they're not. Their wives' jaws are gritted with holding back reams of vitriol about the mountains of ways said husbands and fathers are not only not contributing but are actually making more work for them on top of the children. The men who pat themselves on the back that they do their fair share of the school run when in reality that means they do it twice in six months. To them it feels like a lot but the truth doesn't match up. Not men who are deliberately lying, but they've maybe been sheltered by women picking up this work their whole lives and have never had a good example of what a fair share of it actually entails. Many women realise they're actually better off and get more free time and freedom after a divorce. These are the women who get pissed off about situations like the one you are suggesting.

None of us can know if this is really you. Only your wife can. Mumsnet is full of women who've tried to explain this point of view to their husbands and it's either not penetrating or there's a very temporary improvement then a return to ugly normality. Only a really good, serious conversation can get to the truth in your case. One where you are both genuinely prepared to listen to the other and act upon what's said.

Neither of you can see each others perspectives..... And it seems communication about what you really want/need from each other is not working. It's wider than this holiday. Couples therapy will be cheaper and better for all than a messy divorce down the line....

A wife that won’t allow you half a day on a big holiday is no wife at all. A woman on here with a husband using emotional blackmail to stop her doing a hobby for half a day on a twelve day holiday would hear about abuse, gaslighting and so on. I don’t thing you’re in the slightest bit unreasonable.

Maybe you should read his wife's comments and inform yourself.

It’s not difficult to look after your kids. This man is a high earner so will have a demanding job but folk are dismissing the stress of that. He knows that if he fails, his family aren’t supported but this woman looks after one baby at home as the eldest are at school and the middle one at nurser. She doesn’t even need to drag the baby on school runs because he does them. She’s got an easier life than many other mums on mat leave as he’s in the house all day. If she didn’t have that support she’d know how to cope with her three kids.

I wouldn’t traipse them to another hotel though. And I wouldn’t want to holiday with other families but one morning is not excessive.

But tbh a good compromise could be he stays on for a few days or he gets a few days to go on a golf hol once a year.

I get it. You’re unlikely to book a trip away from the family to play golf in Dubai (which would mean being away for a couple of days at least and be expensive) , but as you’re there and a golfing friend is also there - surely it’s the perfect opportunity?

Id support my husband in this. He was playing sport when I met him / so I knew it was a big part of who he was. Plus I love playing sport, so I get it.

maybe the difference is that my DH is very present when he is with us. Gives up part of his weekend to coach kids’ sports teams, likes cooking dinner, tidies stuff up, would never hold me back from something I wanted to do.

I do have friends though who are precious about the sanctity of holiday time. So maybe it’s that ?

People are very weird about this.

She sounds v unreasonable to me.

I say this as the higher-earner, with three children, whose husband is also a golf enthusiast, and who also plays half a day once a week. You'd be mad not to get a round in at one of the courses there.

You do your bit. You contribute to gamily life, and so does she.

Anyone who thinks playing a round of golf means that you don't prioritise your family is batshit, frankly.

Your husband is sexist and focuses on money more than love.

You are sexist because only your son will golf with your husband and your daughters will lounge with you.

Dubai will suit you both well. Abuse of women, financial privilege and total lack of reality.

Re the golf. Hire a nanny for the morning. He can head out first thing and be back for lunch. Not a big deal at all.

But my read is the real issue is that you and the kids are secondary to his priorities. Keeping up with mates, golfing every week, playing status courses, talking about money. You’re on very different paths & not aligned.

Heck even wanting other women to validate him and undermine you is sexist.

Ditch status holidays in places where you’re confined to a gilded cage & get marriage counseling.

Btw, I've read the posts that are apparently from the OP's wife, @DisneyBaby . I'm very interested to know what conversations you've had about this since posting! Did you know he'd posted or did you just read it and realise it felt familiar? Do you feel he has deliberately lied in the way he's presented himself or that he genuinely sees himself as a really great and giving husband and father? Oh to be a fly on the wall in your house right now!

Definitely not siding with a man for the fun of it, if you look at my previous posts on other threads you’ll see that.

But I’ve also witnessed controlling female relatives who don’t let their husbands do anything for themselves and insist on them being with them all the time.

I couldn’t see the wife’s posts. I’ll look again.

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me for you to enjoy your golf on holiday.
But this is mumsnet, and I guess you knew before you posted that there are some posters who would insist in piling on and giving you a roasting for being the most selfish man on earth, it’s just the way it is.
I think your wife is being unreasonable and deliberately selfish, but there you go, you either have to go and put up with her sulking, or stay and forfeit your day out, I doubt she will compromise.

My husband was a single parent. He gave up golf until my step-son was in his teens.

It just takes up too much time.

Maybe the wife doesn’t want a spa day or to do something on her own. She might just want to spend every day of the holiday with her husband and children

For a golfer though there are some great courses in Dubai so I can see why it would be disappointing to go there and not be able to play at least once.

I’m a single parent and I took my 4 and 1 year old away on a ferry crossing. It was stressful. I couldn’t imagine enjoying caring for 3 young children, one being 6 months alone in a foreign country.

What time of the year are you going? I’ve lived in Dubai. It’s very hot up until September and in the summer months, you can’t really stay outdoors with young children. I was there with my eldest when he was a newborn in the winter and even then, I normally went out with him late afternoon or evening.

We often went to Dubai as children and my dad used to play golf occasionally there. The difference was me and my brother were older so easier for our mum to care for alone.

If you don’t like being the breadwinner, then request your wife to go back to work full time and you pay for the childcare. 50/50 on all childbearing and housework. No doubt it would eat at your salary and you would soon change your mind.

I grew up in a country where it’s standard for the husband to provide financially and mother is a SAHM. Personally I think it’s much better for the children.

@MalePoster

Unfortunately you have managed to include two triggers in the MN bad dad bingo! Golf and breadwinner lol

my advice would be to buy Have copy of Eve Rodsky book Fair Play and a read. It may save you all this hassle for the price of a few golf balls .

With so many people not being able to afford a holiday I really hope that you have a great time and it would be a crying shame if the disagreement messed yours up x