Uncompromising holiday disagreement

[MalePoster]

I would like some advice and opinions please, either way - I understand this is generally a place for women to post but I’m struggling to find somewhere that men can ask for similar advice.

Some context and background - I have been with my wife for 15 years, married for nearly 9. We have 3 children, 6 yo, 3 yo and 9 months. For as long as I can remember I have covered all of our bills and outgoings (at least since we started having children) and any income my wife has had over that period has been seen as disposable income, paying for holidays etc.. she is self employed so unfortunately this decreases a little when she is on maternity, such as in the past 9 months.. luckily I have been in position financially to be able to provide a decent lifestyle for us as a family, and I do not see being the breadwinner or the sole earner as a problem, however I do see very little gratitude to this fact from my wife as any time I mention money she thinks I’m holding it against her that I am the sole provider financially. I feel like in our lives, I do not make many demands as a husband, and I’m always more than happy to go on the holidays my wife wants and do activities that she wants us to do. She has been keen on buying a campervan for quite a few years and I’ve even come round to the idea and said I would put my Dads inheritance towards buying the campervan (Dad sadly passed last year).

I have recently booked a luxurious 12 day holiday for us as a family to go Dubai. My wife has been keen on going away for a while and I was just trying to time it right with school and work etc, so booked quite last minute. She had said Dubai would be good, and picked a nice resort hotel after we looked together, which I agreed would be a nice break for us as a family and hence why I booked it.

My personal hobby in life is golf, I play to a decent level and like playing nice courses when I can, without it being too unreasonable and inconsiderate to our family life.

I had mentioned a few times that if we went back to Dubai (went 4 years ago), I would like to play golf once during our trip.. this was usually met with the “we’ll see” “depends on timing” etc, like I am asking for permission. Well after I had booked I said that I would quite like to play golf, and it just so happened that our trip overlaps by 4 days with one of our close friend couples (with kids too) from home (I knew we were going to overlap before I booked but coincidence that they happened to be going at similar time).

I have made the suggestion to my wife that on one of the afternoons that we overlap with our friends, me and the other bloke go and play golf, leaving the wives and children all together somewhere to enjoy each others company etc.. well this has been met with a firm no from my wife, with absolutely no compromise or consideration towards my request, which has actually really annoyed me. She has made it clear that she wants the whole 12 day holiday to be family time together and thinks it’s unreasonable for me to go and play golf with my friend on one afternoon, even if it means she gets to spend time with her friend (who was one of her bridesmaids so a pretty close friend).

I have said that I’m more than happy for her to go and do something for her in return, like a spa morning or similar, but she says she doesn’t want to do that and just wants to spend the whole time as a family. Whilst I fully appreciate that, I do not think it makes me a bad person for wanting to do something for me on our holiday, especially considering all of the background to our relationship that I presented above.

What should I do? I really don’t want to back down for the principle of not being in a controlling relationship, and because I really do not think my request is unreasonable or inconsiderate to her or our children when considering the whole situation/scenario at play.

Thanks in advance

I think youve had some harsh responses you wouldnt have got if you were a woman.

I do think there could be some truth in looking after 3 LOs is tiring. And maybe theres a part of her wants your support the whole holiday because of that. But pretending work isnt also tiring is unfair. If you carry the load at home generally (im not asking) then its reasonable youre tired too and its not a competition.

But if you were a woman who wanted half a day to herself but her husband told her she couldnt because he wanted to have her and the children with him the whole time a lot of us would think he was controlling and didnt appreciate her right to a treat/need for a break.

That for years youve wanted to do an activity and been told "hmmm maybe" like its being dangled like a treat your spouse may give or snatched away. And for the sake of 1 day to themselves on 1 holiday were told no, its not negotiable.

But the truth is if there isnt a compromise you have to choose stand your ground and have an argument with your wife and let her be mad OR give in and let resentment start. UNLESS you talk to her about WHY this is a deal breaker for her, WHY its important to you WHY it hurts you she wont give you this if her reasoning isnt more than id like us all together all 12 days. And maybe her WHY is reasonable and then you can let it go without resentment or maybe it isnt and you can push why this is important to you and move towards a compromise.

Tbh based your OP I think shes BU not for saying no. That might be reasonable. But for saying no, with no compromise and no explanation beyond I just want you with me (not to do something specific, not because shes saying she cant manage the kids.. etc..) just no i dont want you too.

As a p.s. could you suggest going on a separate trip yourself for 3 days or something if its important THIS holiday is a family one?

Personally I don't think that bringing all the money in IS the bare minimum. I hugely appreciated my late husband doing that for the first few years of our parenthood, especially as he had a difficult and stressful job, and would have been the SAHP like a shot, had I not claimed it.

He also appreciated what I did, of course.

OP' s mistake is in thinking we needed every detail of the background. We don't.

It's a 12 day holiday and there's plenty of room for each of them to have some free time. That's all there is to to it.

So you told me your unusual routine for what reason?!

Answers nothing of what I asked!

It’s not easier to work than look after a baby (the eldest are at school and nursery). He’s also at home when she’s taking care of the baby and he does school runs. She’s not on her own all day. If she can bang on about her job of childcare and what she brings (which he is grateful for) then he can at least expect gratitude that he’s working to support the family financially. Both bring different things and both need appreciation.

You are absolutely right about this.
Why can’t your husband just not play golf this time? He is the one being uncompromising.
With such young children you will need his support 100% of the time, like you say you can’t just go and play by the pool with them, they are too little , and you don’t want to just leave them in a kids club. I think your husband has got it wrong this time and should re-think.

The usual mumsnet double standards. Berating OP because the term breadwinner is apparently such an outdated term but not such an outdated term when women on here describe themselves as the main breadwinner all the time. Nobody berates them for using such an outdated term. People only have a problem with a man saying it. 🙄

OP, if the sexes were reversed someone would have replied long before now that they would be telling their husband to piss off and going off to do what they want for a few hours. They’d also be saying they are sure he can cope with the kids for a few hours. I think your wife sounds like a bit of a princess who is used to getting her own way. It does sound to me that she’s being more than a tad unreasonable with this. It’s just a few hours. I’m sure she can survive a few hours with a family friend and the children.

Bit late for this holiday but personally I’d be having a good long think about just how much you really want to invest financially in future family holidays.

Yanbu. I cant think of anything worse than 12 solid days of family time with no let up, in dubai of all places. Yuk. Of course you should have some time to yourselves respectively.

However I have no idea why your financials are relevant. What was all that about??

@MalePoster I guess your wife can also look forward to you saying you won't be able to have the kids every other weekend when you separate because...golf. There are red flags all over your posts and I believe as per your wife's comments that you have absolutely lied about how much time you spend golfing. Working full-time is normal. You are not a hero. Going golfing both days on a weekend when you have 3 small children is pathetic. You are 100% the problem here, however much you try to frame it as your wife being unreasonable.

Ive now read your wife's posts and I do empathise with her. A 9 month old really puts the spanner in the works.

However, personally i'd be looking forward to doing something together with the other mum and our kids, if she's a nice friend. Maybe thats just me, but I'd that. I enjoy my mum-friends. Also, I don't know about Dubai, but I imagine the resorts are heaving with activities to do with kids. Or is it all sitting by a pool??

Maybe I'm the wrong person to comment because the whole notion of this holiday is giving me hives. Give me a mobile home on a beach in Cornwall any day.

You were sneaky. I've booked us an amazing holiday. Aren't you lucky wifey? I pay the bills.and I've booked us a holiday! Husband of the year!

When really, you've booked a holiday based on your golf buddy being in the same place so you can get a round in. And dressed it up as a family holiday. That's shes paid for (seeing as you're so keen to talk finances and how amazing you are at paying all of the bills, let's be honest in the spirit of your disclosure).

Honesty is always the best policy. Because I bet if you'd have been honest before you booked it, she'd have said no thanks! But now you've booked it under false pretence and you've come into her space to try and get a load of strangers that didnt know about your Cornwall trip to tell her shes being unreasonable.

I'm amazed she wants to spend any time with you ever.

Honestly, yes. My late husband and I always allowed for a bit of free time each on a holiday, even if it was just to wander around a town alone without having to accommodate everyone's needs.

I think you're entirely reasonable about the Cornwall holiday. I'd have been furious. But half a day* on a 12 day holiday would be fine in my book.

I appreciate the difficulty with you having the three children, including the baby, alone though. It's not like being at home with them. Is there a kids club for your older two?

• Actually I probably would resent the whole day element of being expected to spend the whole day with the other mother and kids, and then dinner, all at the other hotel. I'd rather he went off, played and came back. (Unless you and the other mum are super good friends)

WFH isn’t family time and it’s not even necessarily a positive.

It might make him a more ‘present’ partner. Or it might mean that DW spends her time trying to keep the toddler & baby quiet so they don’t interrupt work calls. Or feels that she has to keep them out of the house as much as possible & not invite friends round during the day. There have been plenty of threads suggesting that WFH can cause problems for either the person working or the person trying to live normally around them.

And I still think that the weekly golf is more of an issue than the OP believes it is. It’s not really about 1 day on holiday.

After reading about Cornwall, can you guys return to this thread after your trip and let us know how many times you actually played golf, and how many times your were left with the kids?!

This is unreasonable though

I’m not saying no to golf forever. I’m just saying not right now. When our son is older, they can go off and play together and I’ll stay with our daughters

Is the son 6 or 3? You're talking a hell of a lot of years before you'll allow a half day of golf. And your DH needs to play with someone of a similar standard. Father and son golf is for at home, not at a prestigious amazing golf course abroad.
Would you appreciate being told to wait a decade/decade and a half to do your thing on holiday @DisneyBaby ?

That comment didn’t come across as sarcastic to me. I think pp was saying it like it is.

I’m shocked that this is that big a deal on holiday tbh. Why do you have to spend all the time together all the time?

Fwiw I understand why you included your wife’s work as part of describing contributions to the house. You work full time, she does part time. You work from home and when you’re not working, do your fair share ( in your eyes anyway).

As a golfer, you can’t go to Dubai and not play golf.
Is she miffed that you chose Dubai as a holiday destination so you can play golf though, instead of a destination for all of you?

DH usually books our holiday after asking my opinion on what I think of the destinations. It’s one thing less I have to deal with, Some of the destinations have beautiful courses. So what? He gets to play and I get to have lazy mornings on holiday.

That comment didn’t come across as sarcastic to me. I think pp was saying it like it is.

I’m shocked that this is that big a deal on holiday tbh. Why do you have to spend all the time together all the time?

Fwiw I understand why you included your wife’s work as part of describing contributions to the house. You work full time, she does part time. You work from home and when you’re not working, do your fair share ( in your eyes anyway).

As a golfer, you can’t go to Dubai and not play golf.
Is she miffed that you chose Dubai as a holiday destination so you can play golf though, instead of a destination for all of you?

DH usually books our holiday after asking my opinion on what I think of the destinations. It’s one thing less I have to deal with, Some of the destinations have beautiful courses. So what? He gets to play and I get to have lazy mornings on holiday.

I think the kids will miss out. They are all young. I don’t know many people who would be able to look after this age group of kids at the pool or in the sea by themselves. Sorry kids we are on holiday but you can just look at the sea/pool today!

You’re not selfish @DisneyBaby - three kids and as much relaxation as you can fit around that should take precedent every time. Golfing can just fuck off.

I think it might just have to do with the fact that you presented this as a family holiday, but you actually engineered the whole thing so you and your mate can play golf. In which case, I’d be pissed off too. Golf is rarely an afternoon kick about, and overlapping for 4 days means you very much intend to spend more than an afternoon on the course.
You were dishonest. You presented this as a family time but served your own purpose. I would be angry if I were your wife too.

And another thing: no sane person would say no to their partner doing something that interests them on holiday. My DP likes watches, in Switzerland we go to lots of shops, or he goes and I do something else, just an example. But if presented me with a holiday to Switzerland and it turns out that his primary motive is to park me somewhere pretty while he fucks off and not spending time with me…well, he’ll hear about it. Were he to leave me with 3 small kids as well…there will be war.
Hope that helps.

I think a few days into the holiday she might back down and be willing to spend time with her friend and the kids.12 days together with the children can be long without a break.I say this as I had 4 children and the youngest were twins and they have a close age gap.
I think it's hard sometimes as it might seem to her that you already decided and are telling not asking.
I hope it goes well and you both get what you want in the end.

If you rarely go on holiday as a family, then spending the whole time together is what I think you should be doing. Leaving the children including a 9 month old without you for a morning is not good either.

The really unreasonable thing is going to Dubai to begin with. I assume you are OK with the exploitation of labourers and other workers, the way women are treated and other aspects of the society. There are plenty of other places you could have chosen for warmth and a family holiday, with the option of playing golf.

Single parents have to. So let's not exaggerate.

But I'd aim to put the oldest/oldest two in the kids club, personally. And I don't know what they'll miss out on for half a day.

Have you read the wife’s posts? She’s @DisneyBaby.
She never gets the holiday she asks for. It’s always his friends and his golf. This time he’s actually sneakily booked his choice of holiday to enable it.

Do we know there is a kids club that is open all the time. Single parents usually book a holiday with having to look after them being the first consideration.

The key takeaway OP is this isn’t about the day on holiday specifically. It’s about the degree to which your hobby is a priority in general. Everyone should have hobbies but sometimes with small kids it’s impossible to do them to the same degree.

Some colleagues I know who are into golf would mainly do things like shorter driving range/pitch & putt sessions when kids were little and then slot in games by doing the odd early start/finish at work day in the summer and slotting in a mid week late afternoon/evening game through summer to avoid the weekends.

It sounds to me like the two of you need to figure out how you both get some time and when works best to take it and rejig your regular routine at home. If you get that balance working then there will be less resentment of golf being your priority above all else and more likelihood one off indulging on holidays won’t be an issue for either of you.

For the holiday are there ways you can have a chance to play without it being so disruptive @MalePoster ? I can absolutely see your plan sounds like hard work. Maybe see if there are options at the hotel to get paid childcare so the day of golfing can you possibly book your baby in the crèche for a bit & @DisneyBaby do stuff with older two followed by older two in kids club while she has a bit of 1:1 with youngest? Alternatively would a different time of day work better? Really a compromise isn’t wrangling a yes to your original plan. A compromise is about looking at if there is a way for you to get out and have a large portion of one day doing an activity without it ending up being a day that is particularly hard work and unenjoyable for everyone else. If there is then the compromise is doing it that way even if it’s not your ideal. If there is no way without it being a real pita for everyone else then maybe you do have to skip it this time and agree you’ll go back in a few years when older kids are more independent and you don’t have a baby.