Uncompromising holiday disagreement

[MalePoster]

I would like some advice and opinions please, either way - I understand this is generally a place for women to post but I’m struggling to find somewhere that men can ask for similar advice.

Some context and background - I have been with my wife for 15 years, married for nearly 9. We have 3 children, 6 yo, 3 yo and 9 months. For as long as I can remember I have covered all of our bills and outgoings (at least since we started having children) and any income my wife has had over that period has been seen as disposable income, paying for holidays etc.. she is self employed so unfortunately this decreases a little when she is on maternity, such as in the past 9 months.. luckily I have been in position financially to be able to provide a decent lifestyle for us as a family, and I do not see being the breadwinner or the sole earner as a problem, however I do see very little gratitude to this fact from my wife as any time I mention money she thinks I’m holding it against her that I am the sole provider financially. I feel like in our lives, I do not make many demands as a husband, and I’m always more than happy to go on the holidays my wife wants and do activities that she wants us to do. She has been keen on buying a campervan for quite a few years and I’ve even come round to the idea and said I would put my Dads inheritance towards buying the campervan (Dad sadly passed last year).

I have recently booked a luxurious 12 day holiday for us as a family to go Dubai. My wife has been keen on going away for a while and I was just trying to time it right with school and work etc, so booked quite last minute. She had said Dubai would be good, and picked a nice resort hotel after we looked together, which I agreed would be a nice break for us as a family and hence why I booked it.

My personal hobby in life is golf, I play to a decent level and like playing nice courses when I can, without it being too unreasonable and inconsiderate to our family life.

I had mentioned a few times that if we went back to Dubai (went 4 years ago), I would like to play golf once during our trip.. this was usually met with the “we’ll see” “depends on timing” etc, like I am asking for permission. Well after I had booked I said that I would quite like to play golf, and it just so happened that our trip overlaps by 4 days with one of our close friend couples (with kids too) from home (I knew we were going to overlap before I booked but coincidence that they happened to be going at similar time).

I have made the suggestion to my wife that on one of the afternoons that we overlap with our friends, me and the other bloke go and play golf, leaving the wives and children all together somewhere to enjoy each others company etc.. well this has been met with a firm no from my wife, with absolutely no compromise or consideration towards my request, which has actually really annoyed me. She has made it clear that she wants the whole 12 day holiday to be family time together and thinks it’s unreasonable for me to go and play golf with my friend on one afternoon, even if it means she gets to spend time with her friend (who was one of her bridesmaids so a pretty close friend).

I have said that I’m more than happy for her to go and do something for her in return, like a spa morning or similar, but she says she doesn’t want to do that and just wants to spend the whole time as a family. Whilst I fully appreciate that, I do not think it makes me a bad person for wanting to do something for me on our holiday, especially considering all of the background to our relationship that I presented above.

What should I do? I really don’t want to back down for the principle of not being in a controlling relationship, and because I really do not think my request is unreasonable or inconsiderate to her or our children when considering the whole situation/scenario at play.

Thanks in advance

'Wait hand and foot' - really? OP you sound very pleased with yourself and very sure you are in the right. if your wife is fed up with you, perhaps this is why.

I don't think time away from your family is always part of family holidays.

She's telling you she doesn't want time without you on holiday.

She'd probably be bored and lonely even if mutual friends are there.

It might even be less irritating if you do the dubai golf trip on your own!

Hope you and your life partner can both work out a compromise that shows how much you value each other and respect each other....

From the information given, I don’t think either is unreasonable but I also can’t see myself denying my DH to do something he enjoys on a 12 day holiday for 1 day.
try and have a conversation- instead of asking her to hang out with even more kids, ask her whether she would like some help instead ? I mean, assuming you’re in a resort they’d be able to advise you how to get some childcare help for a day if that would make her day easier (and YOU sort it out, don’t put it on her to arrange).

is there any activity she would like to do while there? Again, find out, organise it etc .

What should I do?

Give her options. Say you can see her point about not infringing on a family holiday, and so you're prepared to forego the round of golf as long as at some point in the future you go on a golfing weekend with friends, to Dubai or wherever you fancy going.

Everyone is entitled to some time out, especially with friends. if she's completely uncompromising about this, it's time to get your ducks in a row, as they say.

In theory I don’t think you are being unreasonable to ask for half a day in a 12 day holiday for something you see as an experience you don’t want to miss but I think from her pov, managing 3 young children on her own is exhausting and around a pool for example can be unsafe.

Can you try and convey why it’s something you really want to experience there and reassure her that it won’t become the norm on holidays or will it?. Could you offer to get some help in for her for the afternoon?

My husband is a golfer and the sole breadwinner for our family. He works hard and earns well. I'm in charge of the house and DD. So, we're similar to you and your wife. Apart from DD is 9 and easy.

I'd be pissed off if DH planned a golf day during our family holiday, he has the rest of the year to play golf, it's available every day of the week. The same for you. How often do you go on a luxury holiday to Dubai? I also wouldn't care if my best friend was in the same country as us. Although it would be nice to see them, I'm there to spend quality time with my family.

To add, at home I have no issues with DH going to play golf at any time, he's also going abroad next month with his friends to play. Maybe this is something you could consider instead of trying to work it into your family holiday.

I think she is being completely unreasonable and unfair. It isn’t a big ask.

Completely off the current subject OP but a camper van with three DC'S is a nightmare we got rid of ours after a holiday with two!
Do think very carefully about the practicalities of it before you spend thousands.

When you say your wife can have time to herself no problem - you guys have a 6 year old, a 3 year old and 9 month old who may or may not be breastfed. Unless they are the most well behaved kids in the world that is an awful lot of young kids to manage by yourself for any length of time. How long do you typically look after the kids for by yourself each week in return for the weekly golf game - or is this time she can have more theoretical than actual? She doesn't need a hobby - she could just have a few hours going to a local coffee shop to read a book.

You can’t take 3 kids that age to a pool. You can’t watch the older ones safely while holding the baby, they are still little and need you able to jump in and grab them. The ops wife will be locked in the hotel room with the dc saying mum we wannnaaaaa goo swwwimming WHY ARE YOU SO MEAN. You can hardly just go for a walk in Dubai. Unless you’re a billionaire and you have booked them into a large multi room suite with a playground so exciting they won’t want to leave op?

Also, in regards to the holiday itself, 3 small kids in an environment not set up for them e,g. a hotel sounds super stressful not relaxing - I have two very young kids and i find holidays exhausting. They aren't old enough that she can just take them to play by the pool given the numbers as it wouldn't be safe with just one adult. Have you thought instead about trying to see if the hotel has childcare that can help for a period of time.

Op, Mumsnet was the wrong forum for you to post, being male.

If this was reversed and your wife was saying you wouldn’t allow her an afternoon to herself on a 12 day holiday you’d be eaten alive. But you are anyway..

it’s your holiday too! It’s NOT unreasonable to request one thing for yourself when you sound like you’re a good all round father and husband.

Just to add, my DH is a golfer and plays off a decent handicap and I know this would also be his dream- he regularly brings his clubs on our family holidays for just one (or sometimes two) rounds to courses that are so different to the UK. We also have 3DC and have always had our own hobbies as well as spending the majority of our family holidays together.

This thread has been incredibly painful to read and you’re wasting your time here.

A resort in Dubai is perfect for small kids. They will have kids pools, kids clubs, childcare, high chairs, kids food. Can’t believe you are saying that’s not a great place for kids.

I wonder if this theoretical time he is happy for her to take is just BS. He keeps saying she could take it if she wants it but she doesn't want it - a more likely scenario is she knows it wouldn't work because when they are both "parenting" together she is doing 80% of the work anyway but OP doesn't realise it. If OP can hand on his heart say that he has regularly managed to look after the three kids by himself for 4-5 hours whilst his wife was out, taking them to an activity, cooking them food, making sure the house is not a tip, etc then this is a real "choice" for her but noticeably the idea of her leaving and having a break sounds quite theoretical rather than real.

If you're a very good level golfer, surely you must play a lot? Golf seems to involve most of a weekend for guys who play seriously and I imagine it's never convenient when you have small children. If she had a hobby that took up a whole day or afternoon regularly and left you with all the kids I can imagine you finding that extremely challenging.

I am the original posters wife.

Here is my take on this and I feel there are a few key elements missing.

Firstly, this is not the first time that golf has effected a holiday. Our last proper holiday was to Cornwall last August, a holiday we take every year on our own and spend quality time together, and my DH, the OP, wanted to invite his golfer friends and their wives and kids. They played 3 times in a week and it felt like the whole week was planned around their golf arrangements. It completely ruined our normal family holiday, and I don’t think the other wives enjoyed the trip either tbh as we all generally feel second best to the golf. So I am done with golf on holiday.

Our friends are not saying at the same resort so DH is suggesting we go to their hotel and I spend the day there with the 3 children (don’t even know if this would be allowed) and then get ready for dinner there ready to have dinner altogether when they get back. Therefore meaning I need to pack a bag and get ready somewhere that’s not our own hotel room with our things, again with 3 young kids. Which just seems like hard work. I’m happy to meet with them and do something fun altogether or dinner, just not keen on having 5 young kids with us two women, hers are 4 and 1 so between us, we would have 6, 4, 3, 1 and 0 aged kids.

If I chose to stay at our hotel instead of meeting with my friend, I will have to look after 3 young kids by the pool by myself which I don’t feel is safe. I will spend the whole day saying ‘stay close, not too far’ etc to my kids who will just want to play with no restrictions. If one of them needs to toilet, we will all have to go coz I can’t leave any on their own etc. And I don’t even know how I would navigate a buffet restaurant for breakfast, lunch or dinner with a baby in one arm and 4 plates in the other for us all.

As a few people have mentioned. I often feel burnt out and overwhelmed with all the housework and taxying the kids round at home and I look forward to family holidays as a way to enjoy the kids and our family without having all the added stress of housework and rushing around. I’m honestly not bothered about time for me because my favourite thing to do is genuinely spend time with my children and together as a family but there is a big difference between spending time with the kids on my own vs spending time with them with my husband there.

I’m not saying no to golf forever. I’m just saying not right now. When our son is older, they can go off and play together and I’ll stay with our daughters. Or when our kids are grown, we can do numerous couples and friends holidays and I’ll happily have some me time on a lounger then and do a puzzle book. But right now we’re in our young family phase in life, I need my husband to be present, and I want to soak up every single moment of family time on holiday together.

To all those who think I was being unreasonable. Do you think this the same after I have explained my views?

I can honestly say that I have never gone off to pursue my hobby alone while on holiday with my family, and neither has my husband.
Your children are very young, wait until they are older to play on your dream golf course, and for now, show your wife that you can make this holiday just about your family.
Women give up a lot to have children, you can't have it all, especially with three young ones.

Why did you have a third? Your DH wants to spend his holidays playing golf and you don’t like being a SAHM. Why bring another child into this?

are your daughters allowed to play golf, or is that just for boys?

Also to add.

My husband plays golf every weekend in the summer. He normally plays golf every weekend year round but this is the first year he has decided night to play through the winter. I can deal with Saturday mornings when it’s early and he’s back around lunchtime as our eldest has clubs that I take her to anyway, but sometimes he does end up playing both days on a weekend which I do think takes the micky. I try to be understanding that it’s his hobby etc and make plans with my children and other family members instead. I don’t like the idea of golf becoming a thing I have to put up with on holiday too when we’ve booked as a family holiday.

We were discussing different holiday destinations and honestly I was happy with wherever as long as it’s warm and sunny. I would have been quite happy with a cheaper canaries holiday but he was pushing for Dubai, and was particularly keen to get it booked after we saw the other couple briefly last weekend where I suspect he stood talking about golf with the guy and then probably planned to book and arrange something before we had even booked the holiday. I did briefly say ‘oh no you’re not wanting to go for Dubai all of a sudden so you can go off and play golf are you’ and he brushed it off so I thought he wouldn’t, and then low and behold the second we’ve booked he’s bringing up golf and trying to make plans.

Very grateful for a holiday and trip away but if I knew this was going to happen I would have said no to Dubai, and no to overlapping with friends and pushed for a diff destination. It’s put me in an awkward situation now where I feel I have no choice but to say yes coz my friend is going to think I don’t want to spend time with her. But the logistics are just hard work with 3 young kids, and I just wanted quality time and a break as a family. I don’t think that’s selfish of me?!

It's because you literally suggested she go 'play' with the other mum while you golf.
Also you gave her 'permission' to have time to herself too when you suggested she go to a spa.

I love being a stay at home mum but that doesn’t mean it’s not a bit exhausting at times.
But I’m not just a sahm, I am self employed and actually earnt £20k last year and the year before which isn’t bad for a part time salary!
As my husband said, he pays for all the bills and household stuff and I try and save for holidays and often pay for kids clubs, kids clothes and a lot of the extras.
I am currently not working though due to have a baby 8 months ago, this being our last child, I am in no rush to go back quickly but plan to return to work later in the year.

Can’t your friend come to your resort with the kids? Get help from a resort nanny?I think you need to figure this out in your own home not both post on mumsnet. To me you both seem to have valid points, but in the end you and your DH need to resolve this.

you also didn’t insist why your DH should use his inheritance to buy a caravan you want. It seems you want your cake and eat it.

Why do you want gratitude for working as a team? This part of I earn the money and my spouse doesn't behave in a grateful way. This type of attitude stinks. It would cost you in the region of £50k a year to have a nanny for 3 small children and that wouldn't be 24/7

If you want to do hobbies then fine, but it's a working from home for your spouse. They have come away for a holiday and obviously they need to team up and look after the children

but with you going to do a hobby for a few hours it means they have to start working solo with the 3 children, instead of pairing up.

If your boss said to you yes you can have a holiday but for 5 hours you need to do a bit of on call work, so not fully working but a bit of work - would you think oh thats a bit a drag. But the boss says well when the next day you don't have to work at all and can have some free time - so it's equaled out. Do you think you'd be a bit disgruntled. You'd rather just have an entire 10 days holiday?

its not wrong to want to go and play golf, but its also not wrong for you spouse to want a day family holiday. What you need to do is find a way to negotiate around it. I'd not want a few hours in a spa, it's not my thing and nor is shopping. When I was knee deep in maternity leave I didn't have hobbies ( I do now the children are much older and have my own life)

I was just about to post again to notice that the OP hadn't answered my question when I asked him how you felt about the level of golf he plays generally.

I suspected something like this was the case.

I'm with you. It also is a pet peeve of mine when one partner in the couple (usually the man) seems to consistently make family things into group things.

I also wonder if there's some looseness with times. Genuinely if golf took "a morning/an afternoon", to me that's about 3 hours. Anything over that is basically making the day about that activity, especially when you have kids who go to bed early.

This is not the own you think it is