AIBU to not understand how "school refusers" are a thing?

[Idontunderstandmodernlife]

There seems to be a lot of parents that have children that they simply can't get to go to school no matter what they do - these children are often called "school refusers". Parents say they have done absolutely everything to get their child into school but nothing works.

I hate to be that "in my day" person but I simply don't get where these "school refusers" have come from because they simply didn't exist a decade or 15 years ago. Kids just went to school. I never knew of a child that simply didn't turn up most of the time when I was in school? now there seems to be one in every class

What has changed that parents are now finding it impossible to get their child to school? Have schools got that much worse? are parents more lenient? are children more forceful? has children's mental health declined? what is it?

Whilst I agree to some extent, it is on another scale now. I work in a selective school (and also worked in selective schools in the early 2000s) and I didn’t come across a single school refuser’ until around 2020. We have had about 4 or 5 in the school (800 students) in every year since then. Obviously, that’s not a large number but it’s significant. I think Covid played a big part, but I think the nature of the school curriculum is a bigger factor. We have a ‘nice’, safe, school environment, with calm classrooms. We are not ‘super-strict’. We provide so much support - we’ve gone from 3 full-time equivalent members of pastoral staff (excluding Heads of Year) to 8 in the last 5 years. We used to have an Assistant Head who was also the DSL and the SENCo; both those roles are now full time roles with no classroom responsibilities. We are doing everything we can to make school a welcoming place but I just don’t think the curriculum fits today’s children and teenagers - the curriculum veered towards the very traditional and ‘rigourous’ in 2010 just as ours kids were spending more and more time on tablets/phones and attention spans plummeted. Primary schools too often struggled to keep the joy of learning and by the time they get to us, they’re already lost. Then the secondary school curriculum is also increasingly dry and pressured and that’s the final nail in the coffin.

There aren't more school refusers now. We just take the registers more often and lock the gates so they're trackable.

Yes of course this is ruining the council. Or not...
Most likely it can be done in other way to fund schools and SEN pupils but it isn't fair to blame children or their parents.

And what are you suggesting we do with SEN and disabled people?

Sometimes people wonder how hitler and the like get so many followers and then you read people's real views and it becomes crystal clear..

I keep hearing about this "bandwagon" but I think it is mythical.

It's difficult to get your child assessed.
It's difficult to get SEN support in school with or without some kind of diagnosis.
Really difficult to see a paediatrician.
It's difficult to get an EHCP (impossible in Scotland and Wales where SEN support was watered down).
Difficult to ensure the school follows the EHCP.

Given the difficulty, we should worry who's not on this "bandwagon"!

Rightyho, i’m Hitler because I don’t want to spend 50% of our budget on SEN (or whatever number it is you want - 100%?)

@BuildbyNumbere
What parents are jumping in the bandwagon?

Nobody wants to live a life where your fearful for your child's life. No one wants to attend meeting and meeting trying to get your child the support the desperately need while the LA deny them the things they should have.

I would love to find a way off this mythical 'bandwagon'

In the real world you can choose your occupation. There are a number of (most?) occupations where you don't need to be in crowded corridors or cooped up squashed indoors with a bunch of other people.

Comprehensive difficulty?

I will.repeat what do you suggest we do.
Disabled children have additional needs that need to be met otherwise they will.become adults with far more complex and therefore more costly needs. It is well acknowledged that early support reduce long term costs. Delay to support costs far more in every way.

Either we need to properly fund and support young people or we need an education system that properly meets time need of the majority not the few.

I hope people aren't wanting us to just lock people in institutions and dryg them to keep them calm

Then she wasn't a school refuser, she was too sick to physically manage school. I bet she would have loved to have felt well enough to be there.

I agree. Another set of contrasts,
PE lessons:
At my DD's old fashioned=ly strict school an atmosphere of mutual respect is nurtured and the pupils just know, for instance, that they need to get changed for PE as quickly as possible.
At the local new-super=strict academy there is only 'right and wrong' and 'punishment'. If you take longer than the teacher's 4 minute timer to get changed you Will have a detention.

We do what we’re doing now.

Spend a fair and proportionate (tbh it’s gone way beyond that) amount on SEN and hope for the best.

No matter what we spend there’s no magic formula for producing the best possible version of a person.

They're entitled to an education, that doesn’t mean the best education money can buy.

I wonder what the comparison of costs for asylums/institutions in the past were vs SEN education now.
Because that's what we used to do with children who had disabilities or other needs including mental health issues.
Of course children in institutions were often treated appallingly and only provided with basics. That probably saved money.

Of course you're not going to remember the kids who never turned up.

They are entitled to an appropriate education to meet their needs. If they can't get through the door it isn't meet their needs and isn't an appropriate education

I have a friend with a refuser. He's a big lad, and very stubborn. She's got mobility problems and can't physically overpower her teenage son and physically force him

I would sincerely love to see you try.

We are spending more and more because the school environment has steadily become a place that disables the very people it’s been set up for.

Like I said before, there’s so much that could be done to improve things, but too many people are I’m alright Jack about it and don’t care that so many are now failed.

Exactly. Apart from those who work in schools I’ve yet to meet anyone who work in an environment like that. It’s bonkers to keep throwing out that line.

I'm not sure where this figure of 50% has come from (the Daily Fail?!). The forecast SEND spending for 2028-9 is 9% of the education budget on current trends, so it's lower than that now. I'm not sure if that's in real terms or not (adjusted for inflation).

EHCPs were 3% of schoolchildren (England) and now they're 5%.

However, the real terms budget per child has fallen over the last 15 years so it's a larger (although single digit) percentage of a smaller number. I think people forget how much population growth there was when the students over year 8 in secondary were being born.

It would be nice if the spending netted off the millions local authorities waste on losing all those tribunals, too!

They certainly did exist
My sister refused to go school in year 9
That would be 20 years ago

They have always existed

You know about it now due to social media etc I was at school in the 90s and there were a few in my year that were rarely/never in
'school refuser' is v complex and cant not wont. Many would long to go and be 'normal' but just cant.
Its massively stressful for the child and the parent 😪

@Ionlymakejokestodistractmyself with there was a lot more flexibility - when we had the phased return every stage was far too rushed by the school whose target was meeting attendance targets and nothing else.

we would have phased return he would do really well and then rather than allowing him time it was let’s add another hour we have to get him full time within six weeks - that meant it took it a lot longer

schools have ridiculous rules forgetting a glue stick shouldn’t be a 15 minute detention

respect on both sides has gone I think

Yet many of us know lazy parents who have given up on their children's education.
My neighbour's 2 youngest children stopped going to school over covid, like everyone else. Son wouldn't go back, daughter went back for a bit but decided she preferred it at home too.
They game mostly.
Oldest has no qualifications. Such a waste as they were bright sociable children.

Not for everyone! You just don’t understand or even want to understand how desperate a child can get. They’re not all the same.

And why do you think it’s so difficult … because there are soooooo many!!!