Autism and Merlin RAP

[Perzival]

I think it's fair to say that the amount of people diagnosed with autism has increased by a huge amount compared to the amount of people who were diagnosed with the separate conditions prior to the change in the diagnostic manuals and people with a dx can vary between being a doctor and having a family, mortgage, social life etc to requiring 2:1 24 hour support with very limited communication.

This week Merlin that own Alton Towers, Thorpe park, Chessington and Legoland have decided to not give their ride access pass to people who struggle in crowds. This has caused uproar within the Merlin/ theme park groups as the majority of people who have this struggle have autism.

For those who aren't aware, in order to get a Ride Access Pass (RAP) you have to give evidence of your disabilities to a company called Nimbus who then decide what type of issues you have and give you a card with various icons on that you can them submit to venues for reasonable adjustments.

Throw in the commentary around the SEND white paper and the government review into why so many people are being diagnosed and i'm wondering if this is a more general move and one which is becoming more acceptable.

As the diagnosis has gone from previously representing mainly boy/ men with quite complex needs to representing a vast array of differring presentations and with an ever increasing amount of people being diagnosed, aibu to think that this is just the start and more venues/ places will limit or remove reasonable adjustments for this group of people?

AIBU= No, there isn't a push back against the autism diagnosis and adjustments made for the dx

AINBU= yes, more venues will start to remove or reduce adjustments for those with Autism

To avoid drip feeding I have a ds with profound autism and would imagine he will likely always get various reasonable adjustments (still gets RAP) etc.

I have physical disabilities and still qualify as I have the difficulty standing and urgent toilet access symbol . I don't have any social care involvement as when I need carers for an activity my friends or family step in so that wouldn't work for a hell of a lot of people - I do have a blue badge and pip thou . I do wonder if Merlin had taken off the urgent toilet access symbol there would be this much of an issue with RAP changing ? I don't agree with how they've gone about making the changes and also how they've picked on one group of disabled people but I do think it has had to change

This was me clarifying an earlier post as social care report/ assessment had been mis understood to be diagnosis report and they're two completely different things. In my earlier post which this refers to i would have said blue badge as proof as well as.

I think people with physical difficulties are put at huge disadvantage especially in regards to RAP at Alton Towers. The RAP was created for wheelchair users as the normal queues can't accomodate them. So if a wheelchair user turns up not knowing they can't really go on anything without RAP even on a quiet day.

Why ? Most autistic kids as any other kids love theme parks . Think about life . Disabled already go without so much stuff others don’t have .

The last few pages on the community, autism and the toxicity around it, are why in the last 10 years it's been so difficult to advocate for those who can't. It's often pointed out that learning disabilities are a separate diagnosis, whilst true they present entwined such as reduced cognitive abilities mixed with sensory seeking/avoidance and in my DS case an avoidance of communication. It's why his needs are at times not comparable to those without a learning disability. You have a subset who will always be severely disabled and yet the word severely or profound have become words of contention but only for those who have been diagnosed with autism. The first line after his diagnosis "this is an extremely vulnerable young man who will require a lifetime of high support needs. It is not to be underestimated that a failure to meet needs could result in a serious injury or fatality to himself." The umbrella of autism really doesn't cut it. Then the catch 22 "but his needs are his learning disability not autism" but pointing this out as a need to have a subset " thats toxic and dividing the community".

The behaviour of Nimbus is appalling. I am only aware of this thanks to Facebook groups. They haven’t bothered to email any of us to inform us that they are changing the symbols, what our new symbols will be or send out replacement cards. Supporting documents submitted are only kept for 3 months so it’s unclear how they have allocated new symbols.

They have lumped ‘difficulty queuing’ under the ‘difficulty with crowds’ title in the small print. These are NOT the same thing.

This has enabled Merlin to ignore the new symbol which is supposed to cover (but is not clearly labelled/symboled as) queuing difficulties.

Unfortunately, I am abandoning my plans to visit the Merlin parks. These are not now doable for us now that the virtual queuing accommodation has been removed.

There was a lady on another fb page saying she needed rap because she gets headaches and eczema from queuing. Whilst that sounds horrible it doesnt seem worse than the thousands of other people who hate queuing or generally get migraines.
I would probably start with an assumption of special school and perhaps ehcp.
i dont agree with adhd as needing rap for adults or kids. Even though mine has adhd (and asd). Because for kids rides there will be many who cant Q as undiagnosed or just generally very young for Q over an hour or toilet training etc etc.

Ideally i would limit rap with season ticket to say 2-3 times a year or just weekdays.
Mainly because it seems lots of sen parents have the season ticket and are going frequently which is increasing the impact on others. I guess that was the idea of limiting the numbers of rap per day. But how many are they giving out a day/ what percentage of the visitors in a day?

I think some honesty rather than ‘we are queueing just virtually’ about how many rides a day they are getting on vs someone in the queues.

In chessington we got on maybe 10 - on an inset day and thats with eating in the Q.
A march in legoland we sent 2.5hrs q for the log flume.
PPW limits to 1 of each ride in a day.

Lots of kids with physical disabilities go to a mainstream school, and some won't have an echp . Mine is an example of this, despite being under I think 8 different hospital departments.

A kid in a wheelchair, in a school that is accessible, might not need an ECHP, for example.

Restricting the number of times an annual pass can be used with a queue pass would render the annual pass useless for many. What is the point in paying hundreds for a pass that you can only use 2-3 times a year. Same for weekdays only, given school kids can't easily take the time off.

I agree with you on headaches/excema/ADHD, but where the REP is allowed for whatever reason, then it would be discriminatory to have a limit on how many times it can be used.

I posted the bulk of this on the other thread and i've copied and pasted it. This is how RAP works, i think it would be good to acknowledge how RAP actually works and how the system can be played. Those with physical disabilities requiring a wheelchair will find it more difficult to game the system because of the physical limitations of the wheelchair in regards to the queue. The RAP does give benefit above just access and their are people who do abuse the system. Not everyone who has autism cannot queue or be in a queue. I don't think it's a bad thing to acknowledge that. If your child is "a little bit bitey" as one poster put it etc maybe they don't need the same accomodations as those with life long life limiting disabilities maybe they need teaching not to bite or some chewlry.

Eg:- family one (no RAP) enter the park and immediately get in the queue for Nemesis. They queue in the line for an hour, go on the ride then go to queue for Galactica, queue there for an hour, then ride then get lunch. Then queue for 90 minutes for the Smiler.

Family two (one RAP) enter the park and ride Nemesis with RAP, they then decide they want to go on Galactica and while hour wait is counting down for RAP they ride curse of Alton Manor and maurderers mayhem. They then go on Galactica and get some lunch while their counter is going down, walk over to the Smiler and ride that.

Family three (two RAP's) enter the park and ride Nemesis with RAP1, they then walk over to Galactica and ride that with RAP2. While waiting for RAP1 to count down they do a couple of rides in mutiny bay, they then walk over to the Smiler and ride that with RAP1. They get off the Smiler and ride Oblivion with RAP2. They then get lunch

There are some people who can technically queue but it wouldn't be safe for them to do so. People moan about children with autism not queuing but they would be the first to complain if they got accidentally hit in the face by a stimming teenager or if someone with autism tried to hug them.

I think if people were honest and only applied for a RAP when they needed it, the rules about who qualifies for it could be relaxed and everyone who needs one could get one. However I don't think that will ever happen.

And this is exactly why there’s a backlash (I know this isn’t you OP) - if you don’t have a RAP, you have to spend so long queueing whilst people who “can’t queue” get to enjoy a much nicer day because they can fit in more rides and go on quiet ones (not something afforded to others as they have to queue). If those using RAPs were doing so in an honest way, people wouldn’t feel so aggrieved and Merlin wouldn’t feel like they have to solve an issue.

Blackpool Pleasure Beach allows one guests to accompany the disabled person on rides - you can add two other people for £5 each. At Blackpool, they give you a wristband which is programmed with your access entitlement, so you can't swap people around. Merlin may have to think of more creative solutions too.

I suspect Merlin may go this way. There will still be people/ families/ groups that will game the system. It is relatively easy to get the no crowds symbol from Nimbus in the same way many families/ groups had multiple RAP's previously.

The only way this will be stopped is by a more robust system in allocating reasonable adjustments to those that need them. Not every person with autism, anxiety or adhd needs an alternate entrance for the rides and all of these people are incapable of queuing.

I hope Merlin doesn't give in to the pressure, something has to change.

Perhaps merlin could trial making everyone queue virtually, this may make people happier as they could then go to the picnic area, as alot of people seem to be upset about eating in queues etc. Fast passes could still be purchased to get on straight away, which would tick merlins box for extra income.

Merlin don't have the facilities to accommodate a full park worth of people if they aren't queuing. The playgrounds, picnic areas etc would be overwhelmed. It would probably become unsafe and very unpleasant. Those who genuinely have an issue with crowds won't be able to go anywhere decent whilst waiting for the virtual queue to tick down as they will be absolutely rammed.

Plus virtual queue tickets only tend to give you an hour or two window. So if all the 9-10am-ers turn up at 9ish, the ones at the back will still be queuing for an hour! Then you’ll get people upset that the only slot they have free is 10am but there’s no hyperia 10am slots left. So they try and book 2-3 rides at 11am and then get angry at staff when they can’t make them all and miss one of the slots and start demanding they get let in the next slot because “someone in their party has a disability and is upset they can’t go on the ride and it’s not their fault”.

When we last used rap in 2024 you couldn't book 2 or 3 rides at the same time, you also didn't have to be on time, the rap code stayed live until you got it scanned at the ride. Sometimes there was still a 30 minute queue at the ride once the reservation was live. So there would be no reason for people to be angry at staff for a missed reservation. For example we only really used the rap for driving school at legoland. The reservation would be ready but there would then be a queue in the rap entrance. This wasn't manageable so we would have to keep coming back and forth until the queue was gone, sometimes this didn't happen and we wouldn't ride. This could take up to 2-3 hours, which was unmanageable for us as that would be near the max time my dc was capable of being in the park. In comparison the actual queue was 1 hour.
Perhaps they changed the system in 2025 to allow multiple rides to be booked?
If rap still has people virtually queueing then actually queueing, then they could roll that out to everyone.
In an example above it states there's many rides without queues that rap can use during their virtual wait. So the picnic/park areas won't be over run because people will be able to ride these, plus there's shows, then the actual queue after the virtual queue.
What I can't fathom is the rap changes made in 2025 means merlin control how many rap are allowed on site per day, maybe they need to lower the amount if they can't cope

If a lot of that was in response to my post about people getting angry at staff and rides timing out, I was responding to the person who said ALL queues should be virtual. Not just RAP. You can’t have everyone on a virtual queue that never times out. If everyone is on virtual queue, they need to stick to the times. Otherwise what happens? Queues form!

And my point about booking multiple slots was also for IF everyone has virtual queues not RAP as it stands now. If you can only book one slot at a time for everyone how does that work? You’re telling customers that they are only ever guaranteed to get on a maximum of 7-8 rides a day (if they stay the entire day). Even on quiet days? And what if lots of slots for the best rides sell out? Someone has paid full price entry ticket but there’s no slots left for any of the decent rides?

So my whole post was about why virtual queueing wouldn’t work, but in your post then suggested virtual queues for everyone.

@Leavebarbiealone i think part of the reason this has come about is because merlin have restricted the number of people with RAP that can attenf on any one day. It means RAP (true) users aren't able to just decide to go in the morning like somebody else would be able to do because the RAP's book up so quickly. They've also made wheelchair users use RAP now too and the queues (not at Legoland) just aren't wide enough or flat enough to accomodate them. So, somebody who doesn't know they need RAP and just turns up with their family or friends expecting reasonabke adjustments can't then go on any rides.

I do believe there are people using RAP that don't really need it, getting rid of these people is the best way forward but i've no idea how they'd do that.

Yes merlin have excluded my dc by the rap changes in 2025, I did mention that earlier in the thread.
I'm just fed of people constantly bashing the disabled, believing rap is something magical, when in fact it has excluded so many who need it, it also isn't something that gives disabled people a better day than others.
I agree there are probably people abusing the rap, but I don't know how that could be policed, or if the amount abusing outweighs the amount in genuine need. Merlin chose to outsource to nimbus. Perhaps nimbus are the problem

It does give people a better day than others. This is why it's being abused. If it didn't then there would only be people that genuinely needed it using it.

I would have a much better day at a theme park of I had RAP. I would get on more rides and have more time to enjoy the parks and shows and eat meals. I think there is a general consensus that queuing is the worst part of the day for most theme park attendees. It's boring, uncomfortable and with whiney children can become unbearable.

In our case that isn't true, the nature of the disability means a full day isn't possible, it was only used on 1 or 2 rides, sometimes none if the rap queue is long. Shows aren't accessible due to crowds, and overwhelm.
Rap was a lifeline for my dc, the only way to get them out in society, they don't go to school, they can't go to most places due to dogs. They've never been invited to a birthday party, never had a play date. We know very well how life isn't fair, and it's upsetting that children whining about queuing and people abusing rap have taken away a lifeline to some.
Anyway i hope excluding the disabled makes it more bearable for everyone else.

I don't doubt what you're saying but the problem was that it did give priority and better access to the parks. Pretending otherwise is unhelpful. The incentive was there to game the system. This is why the system needed to be designed very carefully to stop abuse. Lots of families feel that they 'need" something like RAP to enjoy their day at the park. They needed strong independent evidence and checks and high thresholds to make RAP work as intended for those that struggle the most.

It didn't give priority or better access, as I explained the driving school would be a 1 hour virtual wait, then another 30 minutes+ in a standing queue. This wasn't manageable and meant the rap was useless.
I'm not pretending anything.
The system hasn't been designed carefully because the abuse is clearly happening, if I'm to believe what others report on this thread.
The new symbol changes wouldn't affect us as we have all the required symbols. We were affected by last year's booking changes as we just couldn't get booked.
Rap isn't working for those that need it, not from my experience

Rap isn't working for those that need it, not from my experience

This needs repeating I feel. Because so many people on these threads think it’s just people without RAPs who are complaining about those who do have it and how it is “unfair”. But when the queues for RAP are 30+ minutes it means those who actually can’t queue can’t use the RAP for what it was designed for!

It was priority access because you didn't have to queue for as long as other guests. This is the privilege that other people want hence the system being so heavily used. You may have overall physically queued for half an hour whilst other people queued for an hour. In the half an hour saved you could have gone on rides with short queues, played on the park, gone to shows or eaten your lunch etc.