Autism and Merlin RAP

[Perzival]

I think it's fair to say that the amount of people diagnosed with autism has increased by a huge amount compared to the amount of people who were diagnosed with the separate conditions prior to the change in the diagnostic manuals and people with a dx can vary between being a doctor and having a family, mortgage, social life etc to requiring 2:1 24 hour support with very limited communication.

This week Merlin that own Alton Towers, Thorpe park, Chessington and Legoland have decided to not give their ride access pass to people who struggle in crowds. This has caused uproar within the Merlin/ theme park groups as the majority of people who have this struggle have autism.

For those who aren't aware, in order to get a Ride Access Pass (RAP) you have to give evidence of your disabilities to a company called Nimbus who then decide what type of issues you have and give you a card with various icons on that you can them submit to venues for reasonable adjustments.

Throw in the commentary around the SEND white paper and the government review into why so many people are being diagnosed and i'm wondering if this is a more general move and one which is becoming more acceptable.

As the diagnosis has gone from previously representing mainly boy/ men with quite complex needs to representing a vast array of differring presentations and with an ever increasing amount of people being diagnosed, aibu to think that this is just the start and more venues/ places will limit or remove reasonable adjustments for this group of people?

AIBU= No, there isn't a push back against the autism diagnosis and adjustments made for the dx

AINBU= yes, more venues will start to remove or reduce adjustments for those with Autism

To avoid drip feeding I have a ds with profound autism and would imagine he will likely always get various reasonable adjustments (still gets RAP) etc.

Yes able bodied people would be able to do those things, but the disabled can't. Also the 30 minute queue isn't manageable therefore there's no ride, so the rap isn't being used. That's why it's not a privilege

The queue line for Lego driving school is a bit unique, as you have to queue to get into the instructional video part. I think that's what makes the queues longer....same as for flight of the sky lion... Plus, at Legoland loading and offloading takes longer anyway, because it takes children longer to get on and off the rides. At thorpe park and Chessington they are super fast with their on loading/offloading, mainly because you have to be 1.3m to ride, which means people are generally older and independent when getting into harnesses, so it's quicker for the turnaround. I've heard the ride operators do countdowns on nemesis, mandrill mayhem etc to keep the onboarding fast fast fast!

I agree with this. My cousin was diagnosed with ADHD at the age of 47, and since then she uses RAP, despite never ever struggling with queuing or waiting in her 47 years of life. She can absolutely queue in the normal queue and therein lies the problem.

The problem is merlin won't do anything about it, they outsourced it and made it worse, which is how this whole situation has come about. If they'd dealt with it, then I dare say it wouldn't have blown up in this way.
Merlin aren't really dealing with it on any level. It's the ride operatives who are living it, and they have no say in how rap is run.
I'm also not sure why it's just merlin that is struggling with rap

Some disabled people can absolutely do those things. That's where the problem lies. Those with more severe needs won't be able to but many of those that currently qualify for RAP can. There are loads of videos on YouTube of families doing exactly this.

But unless they make different “levels” of RAP I’m not sure what else they can do? Have one version that is instant ride access. Another one that is for those with physical disabilities that can queue but can’t use steps etc. Another one that’s a virtual queue for those that can’t queue but can wait elsewhere.

Otherwise I’m not sure what else they can do? They can’t limit them to certain conditions or people say they’re excluding those who don’t qualify for it and also can’t queue. Everyone thinks their disability deserves the RAP but yet everyone with one also thinks it’s oversold.

I've not watched any YouTube videos at merlin attractions, maybe merlin need to watch them, and that can maybe help them decide how best to manage rap

The differing levels maybe the way to go. I think it would be similar to how they do it at disneyland paris.
I don't care what they do, merlin is out for us.
I just feel it's important to show all sides to a situation, although I'm well aware it's pointless as people don't want to listen

I think what they've done this time round is trying to address some of the abuse. I would think that getting a dr's letter for anxiety is easier than getting a dr's letter for a physical disability that can be seen (you need some sort of proof for nimbus) and as dicussed not every person with autism or adhd struggles to queue. I would think Merlin are aware that this is where most of the abuse lies and have tried to make changes in this regard. Most people with severe autism would require help in the bathroom so would get RAP via that way if they don't have any physical needs or require a mobility aid.

The reason i started the thread was because i'm concerned with pushback from other venues in a similar way because the autism dx is so varied. It's understandabke in that you have people saying they have autism who are dr's, married with kids and a nice house and then have people who are profoundly impacted all day every day. In some ways i think what they've done is sensible. Something needed to be done.

No, it’s not bloody sensible as it leaves everyone with a non-physical disability (which doesn’t involve a need for urgent toilet access) high and dry. And I hate it how all the media coverage zones in on Alton Towers and reduces down those affected to those with ADHD and “anxiety” (designed to provoke maximum pile on and appeal to readers’ prejudices around who is and isn’t “deserving” of such help). It all stinks.

Doesn’t really apply to us as Alton Towers is completely out of our son’s comfort zone, RAP or otherwise. Too noisy, too many people, too much milling around.

I have to say though, I wouldn’t go anyway out of principle now. I don’t dispute that there are people out there who play the system, but our severely disabled kid isn’t one of them, and it’s incredibly frustrating that he would have to lose out because others can’t behave responsibly.

What I do find disappointing is that they don’t do SENd days. I would happily not take my kid to push all of yours over in a queue, but I’d like him to get a chance to go too. Others do, we’ve been to exclusive use days at Gullivers for example.

My viewpoint is that surely if the autism/ADHD/neurodivergent condition is having that much of an impact on the person's life, then they will almost certainly be in receipt of DLA. Therefore , use the DLA to buy the fast track. That is what DLA is for - situations like this! Buying sensory tools, aids, equipment, etc... in this instance the fast track is an aid.
If your child's needs don't qualify for DLA then surely they aren't that in need? DLA is needs, not diagnosis.

DLA doesn't work like that. Autism greatly impacted my children's lives but they were not entitled to DLA. The threshold is very high.

My ds was given high rate of care dla from two years old and was then given high rate mobility as well when he turned three years old. I anticipate he will always have the high rate of both components of either dla/pip for his whole life or until the benefit is no longer given or replaced. This was for autism- with no tribunal or argument over the claim. I wish there was a bit of an argument to be honest and it wasn't so clear cut that he was entitled. We didn't find it hard to be awarded but then ds has profound/ severe autism.

I should say it was awarded under the severe mental impairment rules which cover the behaviours that would make queuing difficult. This doesn't mean that other people don't have those behaviours just that they haven't been awarded dla under that criteria (there are other aslects to the award). I'm just trying to explain more about how dla is given in my experience.

Spend DLA on an adjustment that everyone can access regardless of whether they need an adjustment or not?

No.

I would happily spend it on an inclusive session somewhere, or SENd play sessions - because they’re actually adjustments for his disability.

But I draw the line at spending his money on money making schemes dressed up as inclusivity.

Dh has just raised another issue with spending pip especially on fast tracks. Where the person has disabilities that require care to be provided by the LA, their pip is mostly taken by the LA and they are left with less than £30 per week for all other costs. So to use pip in this way would be frivolous. The person simply couldn't afford it.

I think your bar being high rate is too high.

Getting it for purely physical disabilities is incredibly difficult as it requires you to be unable/virtually unable to walk at all. So a kid who can walk slowly for only a few minutes
wouldn't qualify.

But it's still an adjustment. If rollercoasters are your child's intense hyperfocus and they are in their element from the vestibular feedback they get from the g-force of being on a rollercoaster, and the only way to access that is at a theme park, on a fast rollercoaster, then a fast track enables them to do that. And I think that is absolutely a worthwhile way to spend their DLA, if it's in your child's intense interests and they want to do that.

I agree that for a family day out it's not as justifiable, but my child's intense interest is riding rollercoasters and he would be devastated to never do that again.

Edited to add - the only other way I can think you'd reasonably get the vestibular feedback like you do on a coaster is to ride on the back of a motorbike, but my child can't do that - they'd almost certainly let go and fall off !!!!!!

I appreciate that, but would you not rather have an actual adjustment that is specifically focussed for children like ours, a real targeted adjustment and not something that already exists - disabled or not?

Lots of families on DLA also cant afford to. My chikd gets HRC, LRM. We have never been because cant afford it but through short breaks had a small amount to use on a trip in UK and I was thinking legoloand but these changes will make it totally inaccessible.

Dla basically goes on food, living etc. My child is in my care 24/7 even his education takes place in home and i have to supervise it. I am battling to get PA hoyrs for the supervision as legally LA should provide this... in meantime I cant work. Solo parent, no support. The idea that families can pat for fast track passes is not true snd also why should they be penalised and pay more due to disability.

Yes, I am astonished at all the "just use the dla to pay for a fast pass" posts. Many families with disabled children have so many additional costs to cover - in my case, I was a stay at home parent, with the resulting loss of income that caused. The idea that we could have funded theme park fast passes on every visit is simply not realistic. Having an annual pass meant we used the parks a lot - we could get to Chessington, Legoland and Thorpe Park so we were heavy users, several times a month in the spring/summer.

I'm not surprised by the dla comments. People don't understand that dla goes on solicitor fees fighting for education (that everyone else gets for free) or for carers so that the lone parent with a child that needs 24/7 care can simply have a bath. I could list more but people don't want to listen, they would rather hate on the disabled because they know someone, who knows someone who is definitely abusing the systems.
Also if I was paying for my dc to go on the one ride (that they can't even access anymore due to age/height, not to mention the fully booked system) then I would want more than one turn, and I wouldn't want to virtual queue, stand queue, nor book on an app, as these are identified as reasonable adjustments. If you're paying for the privilege of a fast pass then it should give privileged access.

I'm really confused by this. You would want a fast pass that gives you more privileges than everyone else paying for a fast pass? I can't get my head around why you would think that's fair?

Personally I don't pay for fast passes as I don't think they're great value for money but this means that we can't queue for any of the big rides with my son who doesn't tolerate queues well. He isn't disabled, he just hates queues and finds them really boring. He loves the rides but he rules out anything above a 15 minute queue max. He isn't alone in his friendship group either as lots of his friends hate long queues too and don't really have patience for them.

I'm not sure he will necessarily completely grow out of it either. I don't like queues much either and wouldn't be up for queuing in more than one queue that took more than 45 mins. I'm not sure many adults would.

If I were to pay for a fast pass for my son, why should I get worse privileges than your child? Surely we pay to get equal access? They both can't access the rides without the fast pass so how is it different?

@Bargepole45

Its different because you’ve just described a child without a disability, not receiving an adjustment for a disability they don’t have.

We’d all prefer not to queue, but that’s a choice and not a disability. If your son (or anyone) had a registered disability that either causes or explains a difficulty, that’s what adjustments are for.

The expectation is that if someone has such disability, they receive an adjustment that is additional to the existing offer. In our case, where that isn’t available, we just don’t take him rather than try to manage without that adjustment.